Thanks. While it was a joint decision to go to Mepunga Blazer, my breeding partner George probably had a bit more to do with the selection of Mepunga Blazer for litter 2. I had another sire in mind but we pivoted at the last minute.

Interested in the thoughts of yourself and others on the Shima Shine and Bella Infrared matings. We have what we feel are valid reasons for each choice but always interested in other opinions.

P.S. We have a litter of 6 that are 5 1/2 months old bred almost identically to Korda and his littermates that we are excited about going forward - Fernando Bale x Mepunga Freda.

I'm not disagreeing, however there is more than one influence in a pedigree as I'm sure you'd agree.

Sandro's example of Swift Fantasy shows she is linebred in the x path thru litterm8's Rooster Cogburn and Sand Man to Miss Gorgeous. Now that, at a quick glance, looks to be the most important intensity genetically you can get as it's 100%, Rooster Cogburn and Sand Man being littermates.

Furthermore peoples objection to this seems to be as they are a 7x6 cross therefore too far back in the pedigree to matter. My point is that it needs to be that far back in the ped (x path can work reasonably consistently up to 12 gens), otherwise there's a danger of the litter being too inbred with 2x or 3x litterm8 crosses for example.

Darren, You and Sandro are both correct in your assumption imo re the Premier Fantasy/ Flying Penske nick re Swift Fantasy, however the reason why you are correct imo, is because there is a genetic link in the x path between the two sires that is creating maximum 100% intensity. So as soon as you put a mating together with the Premier Fantasy/ Flying Penske nick believing it clicks, and those two dogs are not in the x path or it's not the first litterm8 cross in x, that mating may fail or if successful will likely be for another genetic or theoretical reason.

Your example Sandro highlights the importance of knowing exactly why that Premier Fantasy/ Flying Penske nick clicks, and imo that reason is because litterm8's Rooster Cogburn and Sand Man are likely primarily linebred in the x path to Miss Gorgeous. Cheers.

If you compare the litters the Barcias were actually faster dogs and it's as simple as mepungas are better bludgers than Barcias so a couple more are running 700 where the depth isn't as deep as 500, let alone there's less top stayers currently than when the Barcias were at their peak

There is really no need to be so cyncial even though you are saying you are not.

No one is actually saying Blazer is a better sire than Barcia, HOWEVER FOR THAT PARTICULAR BITCH, OVERALL HE WAS in terms of class and stamina

There is no doubt that based on results of the 2 litters that Mepunga Molly had that the Blazer litter is far better than the Barcia litter

MB - 59 wins - $589K
BB - 70 wins - $327K

Good result even for the Barcia litter no doubt, you would not knock it back

We just try and look for answers and reasons rather than just brick bat a sire for no reason at all

Writing them off as bludgers is just way too general and not really even attempting to understand the genetics that are in play

Yes, its identifying precisely why something works. As I said I believe Premier Fantasy is the driver in Mepunga Blazer. Before building elsewhere. So of course its not just him alone. But, when you really get Premier Fantasy dominant in the mating to Mepunga Blazer. You get the best from him.

The Premier Fantasy / Flying Penske cross has shown itself to be high class. Im more concentrating on Premier Fantasy by himself and what he offers not just to Flying Penske, but the entire pedigree.

Im curious Wade has asked for an opinion on Mepunga Mollys next two matings - Shima Shine and Bella Infrared. What are your thoughts on those two matings?

Well said Sandro!

Ephemeral - BB - Unsatisfactory
George's Fancy - BB - FTC

2 out of 7 in the BB litter with tickets

Blazin Master - MB - Marring
Multi Matt - MB - Marring

2 out of 9 in the MB litter

lower % of dogs with tickets in the MB litter

Come on mate, every household name sire throws dogs with tickets, even Temlee, Brett Lee, Brother Fox, New Tears, Awesome Assassin, Spiral Nikita, Bombastic Shiraz, Collision, Fernando you should know that by now, stop being so biased against poor old MB

But yeah you're right, I'm too harsh on mepunga blazer when 99.9% sires have a bit of skunk in them or their pups

Honestly the vast majority of your reasons for a litter being successful, are after the fact. Classic Monday expert stuff. I can almost guarantee they didn't come into consideration when the sire was being selected originally. Hindsight is 20/20 vision.

If it was as easy as you say, why is there 70% of races under 440m

It takes far more patience and skill to train a stayer

Because most dogs simply can't physically run out a strong 500m. You definitely can't make or train a dog to become a stayer.

As you say training speedy squibs is easy, keep them fresh and don't over work them. $80 to simply turn up means they can pay their feed bills each week.

I see Monday Night staying races at Albion Park are racing for Thursday Night Prizemoney, Fantastic coin to be had in those races. They are often small fields and pretty weak by comparison.

They don't have to be much chop to win a 600m race on Monday night at Albion Park ;)

Mepunga Blazer produces far less stayers % wise than either Barcia or Fernando, so by Matt's theories they must produce more bludgers than Mepunga Blazer

All lower grade races are far more easy to win than higher grade races with a promising dog, whether it be a sprinter or a stayer ;-)

I am sure you already knew that

Not based on Data's admittedly limited figures.

https:/ CLICK HERE

Like you said...limited

Hi Darren,

It was Sandro that identified the successful nick. I was trying to include the 4 posts by you guys in my response. I realised you were talking about only Premier Fantasy after I posted so shldn't have quoted you. My apologies.

btw I may have missed why you think that's the case ? You may want to keep that to yourself and that's fine with me if you do. Cheers.

The quicker response to Wade's questions re Shima Shine https:/ CLICK HERE is to compare the mating to Korda https:/ CLICK HERE . The longer response is to break the ped down to identify the nicks present, which can take hrs.

So reversing the peds again this time using Shima Shine's sister Shima Melody https:/ CLICK HERE Brett Lee is 2 gens further back behind Carnage so that may have a little negative effect, however the Princess Bale nick reitroducing Bartrim Bale's ped back into the same damline is still solid. As is the xy angle to Head Honcho giving the bitch a chance to produce another decent male.
Another concern tho is that you don't have the x path nick between Premier Fantasy & Flying Penske that Sandro identified. I wld need to break this ped down a lot more to identify what it gives up. It's not as obvious as the Korda ped.

Bella Infrared is an outcross so I wld want an x path to a proven x path combination, and you get that thru full blood relations Highway Robber and Rooster Cogburn to Miss Gorgeous as a primary 8x8 cross. You may even be able to find Sand Man in there as well in x within 12 gens to make it a triple cross, but I haven't looked. It's a lot of intensity as it is anyway.
There's an xy angle to Flying Penske giving the bitch a chance to produce another decent male again. So I don't mind this ped overall.

I don't really see the need to use an outcross over Molly tho with Kelso's Fusileer, Spiral Nikita and Flying Penske going thru 3 of the last 4 dams sirelines. Seems excessive to me, unnecessary in the least, and definitely have a far better use for a Bella Infrared straw especially noticing that he carries Mister Moss in x 5 gens behind Indian Pride in his damline. Wld be great to use over a Kinloch Brae bitch for example to create that x path to cornerstone brood Elsie Moss bringing her to the fore again. Cheers and good luck with them Wade.

Matt Griffiths wrote:

I just think sometimes people read too much into breeding of a dog and less into the fact the broodie would throw pups with ability to a cattle dog

..and all we are trying to do is find out why that might be the case Matt. In todays climate with the need to cull being unacceptable surely digging deeper investigating pedigrees is a good thing ? Cheers.

In my greyhound breeding journey and experiments I bred this handy dog using that FP/PF cross

Unfashionable sire ($500 straw) and even more unfashionable bitch

https:/ CLICK HERE

He was very handy and unfortunately had a lot of injury issues and never saw the best of him. It gives some mileage to the PF/FP nick, I guess we will never know if a dog with PF in X would have been better or not

One dog I was looking at back then was Premier Boloney for her

He was a tough Group race dog who stretched shis peed to 600m successfully and his dam was a good bitch, a sister to Bettys Angel and related to Talks Cheap, Oaks Road, Magic Sprite who were good dogs of their time

It was a real toss up

My theory was if I got a real good bitch out of it I could go back to Oaks Road or Magic Sprite and recreate Premier Boloney with the added strength of FP & Farloe Oyster in the damline

The bitches in the litter were hard, keen and tough chasers (good qualities) but short coursers with limited talent so it stopped there

https:/ CLICK HERE