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Michael Worth Australia (Verified User) Posts 875 Dogs 2 / Races 0 22 May 2020 02:08
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Hey Jimmy, I think you could do any mating if your prepared to take a punt. But to answer your question both matings are identical in their outcomes in that the females from these matings would get a double x from Lansley but the Males would only receive it through their dams as the sires can only pass it onto their daughters. This is most definitely linebreeding but may not be considered inbreeding by some. If Lansley Bale or Hotshot were both positioned as the damsire of the sire and mated with the same bitches the double x for inbreeding would be higher as the sire would already carry the X chromosome for Lansley and Hotshot through their dam. The best example of this is the Lochinvar Marlow x Bettys Angel mating. Pretty confusing but well worth talking about. Molotov was considered to have the X factor. Its imteresting that possibly two of the best imported sires from America in Bella Infrared and SH Avatar both carry Molotov as the damsire. Cheers
Tony Digiorgio Australia (Verified User) Posts 1008 Dogs 25 / Races 0 22 May 2020 06:38
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steven martin wrote:
Do it to the best.
This litter has quite a few that can gallop and is an example of what can happen, when you get it right. ---> CLICK HERE
This bitch pup is currently for sale on G Data. With the intensity of Brett Lee you would think that she would be worth purchasing just for the breeding barn.
Michael Worth Australia (Verified User) Posts 875 Dogs 2 / Races 0 22 May 2020 07:28
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Yes Tony, the bitches would be priceless with BL in the x path twice for the bitches and once for the dogs and Molotov in the x path for both dog and bitch pups. Cheers mate.
Paul Gebhard United Kingdom (Verified User) Posts 329 Dogs 613 / Races 81 22 May 2020 10:21
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michael worth wrote:
Yes Tony, the bitches would be priceless with BL in the x path twice for the bitches and once for the dogs and Molotov in the x path for both dog and bitch pups. Cheers mate.
Hello
Im a tad slow on the update with all this X and Y stuff !
We are hoping to do this, its a maiden sire but he was a terrific racer, we also like his own pedigree, but, it also happens that it doubles up NIFTY NIAMH, can I ask how would you assess that please?
Michael Worth Australia (Verified User) Posts 875 Dogs 2 / Races 0 22 May 2020 21:02
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Hey Paul, if the covid isolation doesnt do your head in than this certainly will. Its an interesting topic but not totally crucial and I only know what Ive read and learnt from others and Im definitely no expert. Nifty was a good dam and having a double of her anywhere in the pedigree would be a bonus. As the good breeders all say its in the damline. I also think you need to go with your gut or what your happy with otherwise you wont enjoy the exercise. There would be no better feeling than having your dam picking a sire and breeding a couple of handy pups. I do like the mating and see no reason not to go ahead. There are some good articles online about inbreeding and DNA which you may have to read three times to get your head around it. I think its good to understand the principles even if you never use them or worry about them in a mating. Cheers
Jimmy Corbo Australia (Verified User) Posts 435 Dogs 16 / Races 126 22 May 2020 22:15
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Thank you Michael, just trying to get my head around this theory. Breeding is at best an educated lottery, a little more knowledge never goes astray.
michael worth wrote:
Hey Jimmy, I think you could do any mating if your prepared to take a punt. But to answer your question both matings are identical in their outcomes in that the females from these matings would get a double x from Lansley but the Males would only receive it through their dams as the sires can only pass it onto their daughters. This is most definitely linebreeding but may not be considered inbreeding by some. If Lansley Bale or Hotshot were both positioned as the damsire of the sire and mated with the same bitches the double x for inbreeding would be higher as the sire would already carry the X chromosome for Lansley and Hotshot through their dam. The best example of this is the Lochinvar Marlow x Bettys Angel mating. Pretty confusing but well worth talking about. Molotov was considered to have the X factor. Its imteresting that possibly two of the best imported sires from America in Bella Infrared and SH Avatar both carry Molotov as the damsire. Cheers
John Marriott United Kingdom (Verified User) Posts 581 Dogs 24 / Races 4 23 May 2020 10:39
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Paul Gebhard wrote:
We are hoping to do this, its a maiden sire but he was a terrific racer, we also like his own pedigree, but, it also happens that it doubles up NIFTY NIAMH, can I ask how would you assess that please?
If you are going to double up on a bitch , it might as well be a good one. Not 100% but aren't they 2nd cousins ? Far enough back to account for 1/8 th (in theory)
Michael Worth Australia (Verified User) Posts 875 Dogs 2 / Races 0 23 May 2020 23:29
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Theres a good read on the net if you type in All about greyhounds the X factor in greyhounds. It talks of a greyhound called Misterton who won the Waterloo Cup In 1897 I think and could be the possible carrier of the X factor and can be traced back from the modern greyhounds all the way back to Misterton through his x pathways. Very interesting and easy to understand.Cheers
Michael Geraghty Australia (Verified User) Posts 4138 Dogs 14 / Races 15 24 May 2020 00:09
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It's the most unreliable part of Greyhound racing, in general...BREEDING.
So many different ways of thinking. So many different ways of justifying a particular mating. Which way is the best, outcross, part outcross, line breed, proven nicks, inbreed, never use an unproven sire, never put stayer to stayer etc etc. The list goes on and on and on...
The absolute certainty about breeding ANY way is...NO GUARANTEES!
How many top racers turn out to be duds or throw undesirable traits?
How many top bitches have thrown legless racers?
Why do some repeat matings work and some don't?
Why don't "proven nicks" always work?
Why doesn't Fernando Bale and the like work with all types of bitches?
Why doesn't a good bitch not work with a "top" sire but does with an "average" one?
The questions are endless and the results are always never certain. NEVER!!!
The holy grail to success is being lucky enough to get hold of a brood that's DNA'ed perfectly to produce. IMO. That perfectly DNA'ed bitch might have never won a race! How do you know? How can you make that happen?
PLEASE LET ME KNOW!
In the meantime, I do like most do...look at the breeding, make decisions on what improvements the bitch needs, look at different sires who I "think" might suit, then say a thousand "Hail Marys" and rub Buddha's tummy every day.
Oh, I forgot... Even if a mating somehow works, you still have to do everything right from birth to track to give them the best chance.
Geez, I've just reread this post...I think I've just talked myself out of breeding again. Lol. In the end, we all have different reasons and none are wrong...if it works. Lol.
Michael Worth Australia (Verified User) Posts 875 Dogs 2 / Races 0 24 May 2020 01:09
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Here Here Michael, Cheers
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1342 Dogs 154 / Races 139 24 May 2020 04:18
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There was a Head Homcho straw advertised awhile back on Data. Heres how Id breed it - EXTERNAL LINK
Steve Porter Portugal (Verified User) Posts 894 Dogs 48 / Races 0 24 May 2020 21:11
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Hi Paul
Read the reports on BERNADO for your girl DRAHBEG DIOR
Shane Lippel Australia (Verified User) Posts 667 Dogs 0 / Races 0 27 May 2020 11:37
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Glad to see that worked Steve,because I've recently done a similar thing! Don't know how to put the link up to the breeding chart,but I've got 5 two month old future little champs by Worthy Reward x Rapid Explosion.The straw I used was drawn from him about 20 yrs ago!Some may call it inbreeding.Ive just crossed one of the most renowned throwers of strength in to pups ever,to a absolute speed machine over the shorts,she won from 288 mtrs up to 520 mtrs at Albion pk,running fast times,with flying early sectionals.Just can't wait for them to hit the track,see if the breeding works,I'm even more convinced it will now after seeing what you posted.
Steven Martin Australia (Verified User) Posts 7681 Dogs 180 / Races 66 27 May 2020 11:57
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That's very interesting Shane. Thx for sharing & good luck with the mating ---> CLICK HERE
Michael Geraghty Australia (Verified User) Posts 4138 Dogs 14 / Races 15 27 May 2020 21:22
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shane lippel wrote:
Glad to see that worked Steve,because I've recently done a similar thing! Don't know how to put the link up to the breeding chart,but I've got 5 two month old future little champs by Worthy Reward x Rapid Explosion.The straw I used was drawn from him about 20 yrs ago!Some may call it inbreeding.Ive just crossed one of the most renowned throwers of strength in to pups ever,to a absolute speed machine over the shorts,she won from 288 mtrs up to 520 mtrs at Albion pk,running fast times,with flying early sectionals.Just can't wait for them to hit the track,see if the breeding works,I'm even more convinced it will now after seeing what you posted.
Good luck with them, Shane! I'll be looking on with keen interest as I bought the other WR straw. No doubt he will provide strength to the mating.(in theory) What I like about him is the amount of colonial champs close up in his bloodline that are now long gone. Ungwilla lad, Brother Fox, Waverley Supreme, Acclaim Star, etc etc...amazing stuff. Bring those back and mate with a more modern mix, including your outcross, well, who knows?
Your bitch was a very good race bitch so its going to be very interesting what comes of it. If she turns out to be a "thrower" you're in for a hell of a ride.
Hope they blitz it for you, Shane.
Good luck!
Shane Lippel Australia (Verified User) Posts 667 Dogs 0 / Races 0 28 May 2020 07:46
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Michael Geraghty wrote:
shane lippel wrote:
Glad to see that worked Steve,because I've recently done a similar thing! Don't know how to put the link up to the breeding chart,but I've got 5 two month old future little champs by Worthy Reward x Rapid Explosion.The straw I used was drawn from him about 20 yrs ago!Some may call it inbreeding.Ive just crossed one of the most renowned throwers of strength in to pups ever,to a absolute speed machine over the shorts,she won from 288 mtrs up to 520 mtrs at Albion pk,running fast times,with flying early sectionals.Just can't wait for them to hit the track,see if the breeding works,I'm even more convinced it will now after seeing what you posted.
Good luck with them, Shane! I'll be looking on with keen interest as I bought the other WR straw. No doubt he will provide strength to the mating.(in theory) What I like about him is the amount of colonial champs close up in his bloodline that are now long gone. Ungwilla lad, Brother Fox, Waverley Supreme, Acclaim Star, etc etc...amazing stuff. Bring those back and mate with a more modern mix, including your outcross, well, who knows?
Your bitch was a very good race bitch so its going to be very interesting what comes of it. If she turns out to be a "thrower" you're in for a hell of a ride.
Hope they blitz it for you, Shane.
Good luck!
Thanks for that Michael,couldn't agree more with what you said.Don't worry I'll be the first one cheering yours home when they hit the track,hope you get a Champion! We forgot we still had those straws,I kept one,and you know who had the other ones,they were stored there for years on end,My Mothers good friends with them,and gave the straws to them.Would love to know what you paid for your straw as a matter of curiosity. I'm certain if any dogs going to throw strength into my bitches pups,its WR.I can never forget the front page of the Qld Greyhound Journal many years ago,they had a pic of the 7 trainers,holding their 7 greyhounds that were going into next weeks Winter Chase final over 710 mtrs at Albion Park.All 7 were by Worthy Reward,7 out of 8,can't say I've seen too many Stud dogs do that,especially in a Group Final. My bitch was every thing you want in a greyhound,good box manners,speed machine,and chased as hard as any greyhound I've ever seen,but like a lot of them,she just lacked that bit of stamina at the end of 520 mtr races.So yeah if she's a thrower as you say,anythings possible. I'm expecting nothing less then winning The Million dollar Chase with one of them,but I maybe a little bias,haha! As far as inbreeding goes,most of them are inbred anyway.I think people get the word "Inbreeding", when involved in Greyhounds mixed up with Inbreeding in Humans.Yes inbreeding in Humans is a bad thing,and can cause all sorts of problems within offspring. To me though there is nothing wrong with breeding close in Greyhounds,if done right,I'd prefer to call it linebreeding,sounds better then Inbreeding anyway,lol. I had second thoughts about doing it at first,but what made my mind up was the fact she has the outcross in her to American bloodlines through her sire being Destini Fireball.I think with the outcross in her bloodlines worked in my favour,other wise,it may not of worked. Would love to know what bitch your using,would love to look at how it comes up on the breeding chart.Either way,Thanks again Michael, and I'll eagerly be awaiting your pups remember,I'll be watching every win the have, and screaming them home!! All the best Mate.
Michael Geraghty Australia (Verified User) Posts 4138 Dogs 14 / Races 15 28 May 2020 09:24
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shane lippel wrote:
Michael Geraghty wrote:
shane lippel wrote:
Glad to see that worked Steve,because I've recently done a similar thing! Don't know how to put the link up to the breeding chart,but I've got 5 two month old future little champs by Worthy Reward x Rapid Explosion.The straw I used was drawn from him about 20 yrs ago!Some may call it inbreeding.Ive just crossed one of the most renowned throwers of strength in to pups ever,to a absolute speed machine over the shorts,she won from 288 mtrs up to 520 mtrs at Albion pk,running fast times,with flying early sectionals.Just can't wait for them to hit the track,see if the breeding works,I'm even more convinced it will now after seeing what you posted.
Good luck with them, Shane! I'll be looking on with keen interest as I bought the other WR straw. No doubt he will provide strength to the mating.(in theory) What I like about him is the amount of colonial champs close up in his bloodline that are now long gone. Ungwilla lad, Brother Fox, Waverley Supreme, Acclaim Star, etc etc...amazing stuff. Bring those back and mate with a more modern mix, including your outcross, well, who knows?
Your bitch was a very good race bitch so its going to be very interesting what comes of it. If she turns out to be a "thrower" you're in for a hell of a ride.
Hope they blitz it for you, Shane.
Good luck!
Thanks for that Michael,couldn't agree more with what you said.Don't worry I'll be the first one cheering yours home when they hit the track,hope you get a Champion! We forgot we still had those straws,I kept one,and you know who had the other ones,they were stored there for years on end,My Mothers good friends with them,and gave the straws to them.Would love to know what you paid for your straw as a matter of curiosity. I'm certain if any dogs going to throw strength into my bitches pups,its WR.I can never forget the front page of the Qld Greyhound Journal many years ago,they had a pic of the 7 trainers,holding their 7 greyhounds that were going into next weeks Winter Chase final over 710 mtrs at Albion Park.All 7 were by Worthy Reward,7 out of 8,can't say I've seen too many Stud dogs do that,especially in a Group Final. My bitch was every thing you want in a greyhound,good box manners,speed machine,and chased as hard as any greyhound I've ever seen,but like a lot of them,she just lacked that bit of stamina at the end of 520 mtr races.So yeah if she's a thrower as you say,anythings possible. I'm expecting nothing less then winning The Million dollar Chase with one of them,but I maybe a little bias,haha! As far as inbreeding goes,most of them are inbred anyway.I think people get the word "Inbreeding", when involved in Greyhounds mixed up with Inbreeding in Humans.Yes inbreeding in Humans is a bad thing,and can cause all sorts of problems within offspring. To me though there is nothing wrong with breeding close in Greyhounds,if done right,I'd prefer to call it linebreeding,sounds better then Inbreeding anyway,lol. I had second thoughts about doing it at first,but what made my mind up was the fact she has the outcross in her to American bloodlines through her sire being Destini Fireball.I think with the outcross in her bloodlines worked in my favour,other wise,it may not of worked. Would love to know what bitch your using,would love to look at how it comes up on the breeding chart.Either way,Thanks again Michael, and I'll eagerly be awaiting your pups remember,I'll be watching every win the have, and screaming them home!! All the best Mate.
Hi Shane,
I'll be doing this mating... CLICK HERE She was equal fastest bitch I have ever broken in but unfortunately she broke while doing it. Could never get her around a bend without breaking down from then on...tragedy.
I paid $500 for the straw which I thought was more than fair...bargain really.
I'll be cheering yours too, mate. Let's hope that between us we can revive yesteryear and kick some ass.
All the best.
Shane Lippel Australia (Verified User) Posts 667 Dogs 0 / Races 0 28 May 2020 10:06
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Michael Geraghty wrote:
shane lippel wrote:
Michael Geraghty wrote:
shane lippel wrote:
Glad to see that worked Steve,because I've recently done a similar thing! Don't know how to put the link up to the breeding chart,but I've got 5 two month old future little champs by Worthy Reward x Rapid Explosion.The straw I used was drawn from him about 20 yrs ago!Some may call it inbreeding.Ive just crossed one of the most renowned throwers of strength in to pups ever,to a absolute speed machine over the shorts,she won from 288 mtrs up to 520 mtrs at Albion pk,running fast times,with flying early sectionals.Just can't wait for them to hit the track,see if the breeding works,I'm even more convinced it will now after seeing what you posted.
Good luck with them, Shane! I'll be looking on with keen interest as I bought the other WR straw. No doubt he will provide strength to the mating.(in theory) What I like about him is the amount of colonial champs close up in his bloodline that are now long gone. Ungwilla lad, Brother Fox, Waverley Supreme, Acclaim Star, etc etc...amazing stuff. Bring those back and mate with a more modern mix, including your outcross, well, who knows?
Your bitch was a very good race bitch so its going to be very interesting what comes of it. If she turns out to be a "thrower" you're in for a hell of a ride.
Hope they blitz it for you, Shane.
Good luck!
Thanks for that Michael,couldn't agree more with what you said.Don't worry I'll be the first one cheering yours home when they hit the track,hope you get a Champion! We forgot we still had those straws,I kept one,and you know who had the other ones,they were stored there for years on end,My Mothers good friends with them,and gave the straws to them.Would love to know what you paid for your straw as a matter of curiosity. I'm certain if any dogs going to throw strength into my bitches pups,its WR.I can never forget the front page of the Qld Greyhound Journal many years ago,they had a pic of the 7 trainers,holding their 7 greyhounds that were going into next weeks Winter Chase final over 710 mtrs at Albion Park.All 7 were by Worthy Reward,7 out of 8,can't say I've seen too many Stud dogs do that,especially in a Group Final. My bitch was every thing you want in a greyhound,good box manners,speed machine,and chased as hard as any greyhound I've ever seen,but like a lot of them,she just lacked that bit of stamina at the end of 520 mtr races.So yeah if she's a thrower as you say,anythings possible. I'm expecting nothing less then winning The Million dollar Chase with one of them,but I maybe a little bias,haha! As far as inbreeding goes,most of them are inbred anyway.I think people get the word "Inbreeding", when involved in Greyhounds mixed up with Inbreeding in Humans.Yes inbreeding in Humans is a bad thing,and can cause all sorts of problems within offspring. To me though there is nothing wrong with breeding close in Greyhounds,if done right,I'd prefer to call it linebreeding,sounds better then Inbreeding anyway,lol. I had second thoughts about doing it at first,but what made my mind up was the fact she has the outcross in her to American bloodlines through her sire being Destini Fireball.I think with the outcross in her bloodlines worked in my favour,other wise,it may not of worked. Would love to know what bitch your using,would love to look at how it comes up on the breeding chart.Either way,Thanks again Michael, and I'll eagerly be awaiting your pups remember,I'll be watching every win the have, and screaming them home!! All the best Mate.
Hi Shane,
I'll be doing this mating... CLICK HERE She was equal fastest bitch I have ever broken in but unfortunately she broke while doing it. Could never get her around a bend without breaking down from then on...tragedy.
I paid $500 for the straw which I thought was more than fair...bargain really.
I'll be cheering yours too, mate. Let's hope that between us we can revive yesteryear and kick some ass.
All the best.
Looks good Mick.Looks to be a bit of speed in the damline,and it keeps throwing on.The Surf Lorians bred from that damline,threw some fast/strong types as well.The litter sister to your dam run some fast times,so if your bitch was as fast as you said,you've had a few fast ones,it should be Happy days ahead for you! $500 Mate that's the Bargain of a Lifetime in my bias opinion,lol,some will agree,some won't,but I'll be more then Happy to let them know when either of us is Kicking arse around the tracks! Cheers Mate
Do you have questions about breeding theories? 
