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Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1343 Dogs 154 / Races 139 23 Feb 2023 06:10
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Its not copying, its putting proven lines together that work. Id already decided on Wow for Instafamous, before noticing the pedigree of Wyndra All Class! She didnt elevate herself to true elite class until winning her Group 1 - 2 weeks after my litter was whelped!
Look at Bombastic Shiraz to the Alice Dooley dam line - Bit Chili, Prankster, Smart Besty, Tifi. Then is it any surprise the duplication of Bombastic Shiraz back into Bit Chili produced Respectability?
Look how well Fernando Bale and sons works with the Haras line in QLD!
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 23 Feb 2023 06:55
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You can analysis pedigrees and argue your case as much as you like. Using FB to this bitch obviously doesn't guarantee success. It does buy you more tickets in the lottery that is greyhound breeding.
Ryan Vanderwert Australia (Verified User) Posts 5958 Dogs 8 / Races 0 23 Feb 2023 07:09
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Darren Leeson wrote:
Its not copying, its putting proven lines together that work. Id already decided on Wow for Instafamous, before noticing the pedigree of Wyndra All Class! She didnt elevate herself to true elite class until winning her Group 1 - 2 weeks after my litter was whelped!
lol Darren regardless of your intent, the numbers say it's a copy but I'll agree to disagree about that. Apologise if I came across as being personal.
As I explained to you I think in the De Ferran thread, your reasons and mine for his success are different. I'm not against what you are doing, even I've been there and produced a dog that won 10 races at the Meadows and Sandown doing the same thing, but it still goes down as my worst mating from a logic perspective I've done. I just think you put yourself behind the 8 ball with that type of thinking with creating a champion/superstar type, that's all. Cheers.
Matt Griffiths Australia (Verified User) Posts 1955 Dogs 56 / Races 2 23 Feb 2023 09:20
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At the end of the day you go to a sire that matches bloodline wise and compliments or improves traits, then hope for the best. I personally would be going to Bernardo, hard style Rico or wow because they're hard chasers, but I'd say Fernando bale is already booked in
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1343 Dogs 154 / Races 139 23 Feb 2023 11:23
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Not one to ever take offence at anything Ryan. Its just all differing opinion. Fair enough. I look for lines that really fire with each other. Guess we all do what works for each of us. Cheers.
Well said Matt!
Donna Sadler Australia (Verified User) Posts 1731 Dogs 59 / Races 6 24 Feb 2023 03:40
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michael worth wrote:
Hey Donna, theres one I Ike that I think most breeders would not consider, and that is Orson Allen. I think the line breeding of well performed brother and sister who are positioned to impact ,with an outcross on top could produce something special. Token Melody obviously produced some handy pups and she was mated similar to her sister bazwill , whose best litter was to Elite State or the credibility line same as BDC. Their daughters were also mated the same to bit chilli who also went on to produce dogs like Bye Bye Bucks. For this reason I also like sires such as Wow as his bottom line goes back to History Lesson. Others are dogs like Out of Range although not in X, Aston Rupee, Aston Duke and there are others with similar dam lines. One that stands out but is not very commercial with only ninety odd pups on the ground but with at least three group performers is Aston Galilee. And obviously the GOAT is a good option but dont overlook his dam as nothing clicks with everything. These are just my opinions and observations. Good luck with which ever sire you choose. Cheers
Hi Michael, when I first started looking at stud dogs seriously this time round Orson stood out to me - I love his bloodlines and what a good dog he was in the tracjI still really like him and he is on the list for further down the track As always your suggestions are excellent, thank you
Donna Sadler Australia (Verified User) Posts 1731 Dogs 59 / Races 6 24 Feb 2023 03:43
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R
michael worth wrote:
Hey Donna, theres one I Ike that I think most breeders would not consider, and that is Orson Allen. I think the line breeding of well performed brother and sister who are positioned to impact ,with an outcross on top could produce something special. Token Melody obviously produced some handy pups and she was mated similar to her sister bazwill , whose best litter was to Elite State or the credibility line same as BDC. Their daughters were also mated the same to bit chilli who also went on to produce dogs like Bye Bye Bucks. For this reason I also like sires such as Wow as his bottom line goes back to History Lesson. Others are dogs like Out of Range although not in X, Aston Rupee, Aston Duke and there are others with similar dam lines. One that stands out but is not very commercial with only ninety odd pups on the ground but with at least three group performers is Aston Galilee. And obviously the GOAT is a good option but dont overlook his dam as nothing clicks with everything. These are just my opinions and observations. Good luck with which ever sire you choose. Cheers
Hi Michael, when I first started looking at stud dogs seriously this time round Orson stood out to me - I love his bloodlines and what a good dog he was in the tracjI still really like him and he is on the list for further down the track As always your suggestions are excellent, thank you
Donna Sadler Australia (Verified User) Posts 1731 Dogs 59 / Races 6 24 Feb 2023 05:22
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Hi Jack, have tried previously to find a MBF with n success
Donna Sadler Australia (Verified User) Posts 1731 Dogs 59 / Races 6 24 Feb 2023 05:28
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Paul Dicks wrote:
Orson has underperformed as a sire thus far. Besides that is another KC and All line sire. Donna has already used Aston Rupee.
I'm surprised no one has suggested Royal Assassin. This bitch is way too well performed for some to be considered a potential brood ;-)
Two of my all time favourite stud dogs- Head Honcho and Go Wild Teddy Love RA - wish there were straws around
Donna Sadler Australia (Verified User) Posts 1731 Dogs 59 / Races 6 24 Feb 2023 05:32
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roger spry wrote:
Hi Donna, In order to get away from ending up with 300-400 mt hounds that breeders in Australia have been churning out for many years now in very high numbers at least you are starting off with a good bitch that has a great chance of producing 500-730 mt race dogs of quality. I would put your bitch to one of these three dogs , the reasons are very obvious when you look at the print out of back generations .
1 Aussie Infrared 2 Hard Style Rico 3 Feral Franky
Bella Infrared was one of the hardest and toughest dogs to grace a greyhound track in many a year , he also would have won over the 700 mt had he gone over that trip , this is a huge plus when using one of his sons. you know all there is to know about Feral Franky.
Best of luck Donna ,
Thankyou Roger Youve picked my top three of the newte generations of exciting stud dogs coming through
Donna Sadler Australia (Verified User) Posts 1731 Dogs 59 / Races 6 24 Feb 2023 05:36
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Thats interesting Graham about that interview. In an ideal situation it would have been nice to see how her first Fernandos went. It, at the end of the day, all you can do is narrow the odds. Fernando is proven over Barcia daughters snd the damline ..but we are really all guessing till pups hit the track .
Donna Sadler Australia (Verified User) Posts 1731 Dogs 59 / Races 6 24 Feb 2023 06:00
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Ryan Vanderwert wrote:
https:/ CLICK HERE Is the 20% difference in the pedigree going to make the offspring better or worse than Tommy Shelby ?
Knowing how fast Tommy Shelby was, logic states the window of opportunity is far less to produce a better one than Tommy Shelby by altering Tommy's pedigree by 20%. If Tommy Shelby was a country dog or bordering on city Grade 5 then your percentages may be a lot better with the 20% pedigree alteration.
I believe this point is where breeders may let themselves down more often than not.
It's not impossible to produce better than Tommy Shelby, but even by adding Barcia to the ped, the odds are very much against your bitch producing beta than Tommy putting Fernando over her, because of how good Tommy was.
I appreciate what youre saying Ryan but Im not all about just trying to reproduce or breed a dog better than Tommy Shelby Its sbout that cross being proven to be successful ( that whole litter were dogs with clearly dogs with ability with Tommy being the standout but those special dogs only come along every now snd then. A lot of things have to align to have a dog like him (or Jungle Deuce) I am not trying to copy anything nor do I realistically expect to breed another Tommy ( the odds of breeding another Tommy would have to be astronomical BUT the odds of breeding a litter of good dogs is in reach ) whether Silent Enemys previous owner had bred her to Fernando or not, he would still have probably been my first choice because the cross / nick is proven to produce good dogs, not because I think I can breed anything like Tommy but a litter that all win in the city would make me happy.
Donna Sadler Australia (Verified User) Posts 1731 Dogs 59 / Races 6 24 Feb 2023 06:02
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Darren Leeson wrote:
Ryan Vanderwert wrote:
https:/ CLICK HERE Is the 20% difference in the pedigree going to make the offspring better or worse than Tommy Shelby ?
Knowing how fast Tommy Shelby was, logic states the window of opportunity is far less to produce a better one than Tommy Shelby by altering Tommy's pedigree by 20%. If Tommy Shelby was a country dog or bordering on city Grade 5 then your percentages may be a lot better with the 20% pedigree alteration.
I believe this point is where breeders may let themselves down more often than not.
It's not impossible to produce better than Tommy Shelby, but even by adding Barcia to the ped, the odds are very much against your bitch producing beta than Tommy putting Fernando over her, because of how good Tommy was.
Its not about trying to reproduce Tommy Shelby Ryan, but elite class - https:/ CLICK HERE
Its about trying to get the mix of bloodlines correct - https:/ CLICK HERE
YES Sandro!! That is a hundred per cent what I was trying to say The word copy does not really apply.
Donna Sadler Australia (Verified User) Posts 1731 Dogs 59 / Races 6 24 Feb 2023 06:12
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Well, little Miss Silent Enemy left Sultanas yesterday and the phone call from Darren was Missy has just come in season! Im away at the moment so a bit hard to get some other things in place but shes gone straight to Sandown for prog and swab and well see where we are at. Sometimes things happen for a reason- if by chance she is higher than we would have thought the Fernando straw is the one sitting there ready to go.. even if I had wanted to trying to sort out snd transfer a straw on the weekend would be very tricky so maybe its just meant to be. Im comfortable with that Thankyou everyone so much for your input. .
Matt Griffiths Australia (Verified User) Posts 1955 Dogs 56 / Races 2 24 Feb 2023 07:24
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I think every sire in Australia would have straws at Sandown vets, but no real surprise you went with Fernando bale. You would think that's a safe option to produce
Do you have questions about breeding theories? 
