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Paul Jennings Ireland (Verified User) Posts 2389 Dogs 1 / Races 0 02 Oct 2014 16:38
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david deguara wrote:
John
I don't want to speak out of turn but I doubt you will see any Fabregas semen exported to Ireland/UK any time soon simply because current demand is so high in Australia.
From before they went to stud, I thought Magic Sprite and Fabregas would be two dogs that would do well at stud in Ireland. Magic Sprite is available here now but not sure if there much chance of Fabregas semen coming here.
Sean O'Donnell Australia (Verified User) Posts 4262 Dogs 64 / Races 54 02 Oct 2014 17:28
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Sandro Bechini wrote:
For a young sire he is making a presence with about 8 winners in the last two days from 400m-520m
As a group they aren't old enough to hit the city 5th grades yet but it would seem it will only be a matter of time that they make their presence felt
At this stage they seem to be sprinting types. It will be interesting to see how this first crop develop
glenn hatton wrote:
Scheme Big Ticket Are Jip Wuxi Martin Clegg
Are a few that have put times on the board
Warranting of a price rise on actual performance and ability to reproduce an x class of greyhound week in week out ? Id say not, but if people want to pay it!
Glenn Hatton Australia (Verified User) Posts 4852 Dogs 92 / Races 98 02 Oct 2014 20:11
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Doesn't matter. Bekim Bale went up the same amount before he had any starters. They have full books every quarter, so price is cheap. I'm sure Barcia Bale has done the same.
Scott Jackson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1948 Dogs 4 / Races 0 02 Oct 2014 20:40
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Supply and demand. Simple. If people are using him in droves, they are obviously convinced he's doing well so of course it's justified.
Sean O'Donnell Australia (Verified User) Posts 4262 Dogs 64 / Races 54 02 Oct 2014 23:16
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yes people have to pay overs for stud dogs when they haven't achieved a 1/4 of what others have and are far better value.
If they do not live up to expectations one thing is certain the stud master and owner will be laughing all the way to the bank.
I will stick to what I believe in that Bekim, Barcia, Fabregas, Vellocette, Dyna Lachlan were all put up in price when a glimmer of throwing something decent.
All of those dogs in question had prices elevated way before earning the price rise. I do not see such reasons for full books as a fair go excuse for slugging a surcharge to cut a fatter cheque.
Pretty sure the only people making money in this game are the stud master's, trainers and rearers!
Lock me in as saying if I ever get blessed with such a stud dog I will not be so focused on my bank balance and give a bit back to the participants.
If i want to use such dogs well yes I have no choice but it will be only out of necessity and not without disappointment in paying more than something is worth.
Doug Taylor Australia (Verified User) Posts 1896 Dogs 22 / Races 1 03 Oct 2014 03:29
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Sean you don't see overdemand as a reason for a price increase? Most people with any business experience would disagree but each to their own. I find it odd that some of the dogs you've mentioned have produced more at a cheaper price than a couple you spruik often that are currently dearer but again, each to their own.
I think this comment is pretty disrespectful to many from each of those fields that work their arse off for many hours each week with inferior dogs before they 'laugh all the way to the bank' when they finally are blessed with the good ones.
Sean O'Donnell wrote:
I do not see such reasons for full books as a fair go excuse for slugging a surcharge to cut a fatter cheque.
Pretty sure the only people making money in this game are the stud master's, trainers and rearers!
You seem to think they 'owe' participants something? I'm sure they didn't have their hands out for donations when they battled with cheaper sires that cost them money to market and made losses on and it's pretty simple, if you don't think a dog is worth it, don't pay it....which makes this comment ever more puzzling.
Sean O'Donnell wrote:
If i want to use such dogs well yes I have no choice but it will be only out of necessity and not without disappointment in paying more than something is worth.
Sean O'Donnell Australia (Verified User) Posts 4262 Dogs 64 / Races 54 03 Oct 2014 04:06
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Hello Doug,
If you want to use a dog you have no choice really you pay what his fee is. I'm not talking charity but past examples like collision at $2200 on the back of multiple city & group winners only went up in the later years. Where's Pedro $3300 for an eternity, magic sprite started out 1100 and only went to $2200 after loads of city winners and group finalist plus winner etc.
That's my belief yes westy has been blessed with good dogs, great stud dogs and is a champion guy, and when a stud dog has do everything so little as the ones who have incurred price rises some without even dogs on the track, yes its valuing the bank balance a little to much I believe.
I'm sure people will not agree with what I say or may even be offended but the dogs starting at $1650 is a premium, $2200 is nothing more than profit driven and it give stuff all back to breeders except drives up costs.
Sorry I wouldn't have a concern if fare gas was tabling city winners week in week out and the odd group Winner, but he is not, yet?
Anyway I have said my piece.
Doug Taylor Australia (Verified User) Posts 1896 Dogs 22 / Races 1 03 Oct 2014 04:46
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Sean
Fabregas oldest pups aren't yet 2 so many are working their way to city tracks with fast provincial wins. Obviously many people are seeing something you're not if they are booking him out each quarter which has prompted the price increase.
The starting price of dogs like Bekim, Fabregas and Magic Sprite was relevant to what they won on the track in my opinion, Bekim was a city track record holder, Fabregas a Group 1 winner but Magic Sprite broke down before being able to reach those heights (although he was undoubtedly fast).
Magic Sprite is actually $2,750 and has been all year making him the dearest of the three where I actually think the other two will both outproduce him in 2015 so I guess I see the value in both of them over Magic Sprite (and I mean no disrespect to connections of Magic Sprite whatsoever, just an example).
What I'm saying is prices are relative to your opinion of the dogs and what you think they can produce and obviously many think Bekim and Fabregas are producing the goods which is why they want to use them and I certainly don't begrudge Westy, John Carruthers, or any studmaster managing their prices accordingly, if I don't see value I'll use someone else. The flipside is if they're not getting booked they use special discounted pricing as well and I don't know of too many people that would be insisting on paying their non discounted pricing because they don't think it's fair.
Now I've said mine too.
Sean O'Donnell Australia (Verified User) Posts 4262 Dogs 64 / Races 54 03 Oct 2014 04:54
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Doug I see what they are seeing, I've been vocal about how Good the few litters look i have seen in the flesh and the fact that his offspring are getting over 450+ and at pace. I like the dog immensely and will use him at some stage as I have a perfectly suited batch for him.
THE DOG HAS NOT DONE ENOUGH TO WARRANT A PRICE RISE AND BOOKING OUT IS A PISS WEAK EXCUSE.
Anyway good luck to west and here's to fabregas continuing to throw quality offspring.
Doug Taylor Australia (Verified User) Posts 1896 Dogs 22 / Races 1 03 Oct 2014 04:56
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Sean O'Donnell wrote:
Doug I see what they are seeing, I've been vocal about how Good the few litters look and the fact that his offspring are getting over 450+ and at pace. I like the dog immensely and will use him at some stage as I have a perfectly suited batch for him.
THE DOG HAS NOT DONE ENOUGH TO WARRANT A PRICE RISE AND BOOKING OUT IS A PISS WEAK EXCUSE.
Anyway good luck to west and here's to fabregas continuing to throw quality offspring.
You think if you type in capitals it makes it true?
I DON'T AGREE WITH YOU
Scott Jackson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1948 Dogs 4 / Races 0 03 Oct 2014 05:13
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Sean, when you breed a stud dog I hope you're stick to your morals lol
Sean O'Donnell Australia (Verified User) Posts 4262 Dogs 64 / Races 54 03 Oct 2014 05:14
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That's okay that you don't agree with me, we will have to AGREE TO DISAGREE!
Scott I will if I am that lucky!
Scott Jackson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1948 Dogs 4 / Races 0 03 Oct 2014 05:15
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Oh and rather than mouth off here, ring Paul and tell him your thoughts. I've got his number if you need it. Bloody keyboard experts hahahahaha
Sean O'Donnell Australia (Verified User) Posts 4262 Dogs 64 / Races 54 03 Oct 2014 06:51
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Scott its called expressing an opinion, grant Thomas asked if it was warranted (re price rise) my opinion no. I have westy's number!
who are you what have you done sorry?
John McAlister Australia (Verified User) Posts 6567 Dogs 1 / Races 0 03 Oct 2014 07:06
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Well here goes I think what their doing with these stud dogs is called stealing and it is a very weak excuse to use I remember Superman getting his price put up when he got Kilty Lad has there been anymore like him since people forget that it is not all that long back that Collision was 2200 until he was virtually the last man standing and in his prime I think their playing with the Futures Market and the Gullible owners and Magic Sprite whose he when it comes to 500m+ dogs Bekim is throwing a distance type dog and Barcia well are they the real deal.I still remember John Newell telling me about Frozen before its inception and that acquiring a dog this way would be much cheaper lol cheaper my arse Fabregas 1 ejaculate x 4 is 8800 and then another 2400 for the vets how is this cheaper for the breeder me say that is a big joke
Scott Jackson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1948 Dogs 4 / Races 0 03 Oct 2014 07:14
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Sean, I've done Jack shit like you, but I am not the one criticising. When I can do things better than those guys, I may feel in a position to criticise. John, it's only stealing if you have no choice, so that's a bloody ridiculous comment. Typical if this site and nothing has changed. All keyboard experts while the true experts are busy doing the business.
John McAlister Australia (Verified User) Posts 6567 Dogs 1 / Races 0 03 Oct 2014 07:25
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Scott I am no keyboard expert bro that I can assure you but when Collision stood for 2200 he was in his prime as a sire a couple of big guns fell from the Mantle and he stood up Fabregas has got winners my friend on the ground and I am an admirer of the dog but why the price rise.I have not long ago done a few stats on the dog and yes they look promising yet I will say this...the greyhound industry is going backwards now they may be able to sell vials for 2200 but are the breeders going to jerk their price up also ...you betcha What they don't realise is that the boom time in the doggies is gone a long time ago
Glenn Hatton Australia (Verified User) Posts 4852 Dogs 92 / Races 98 03 Oct 2014 07:54
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$2200, average litter size is 6-7, let's say 6.
At $1650, thats $275 a pup.
At $2200, that's $366 a pup.
See, it's not that big a deal.
By the way. The vet I use said the Fabregas semen was the best he'd seen, so those pup numbers may well be higher
Scott Jackson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1948 Dogs 4 / Races 0 03 Oct 2014 07:57
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John, fair enough but the fact remains if he was over priced, he'd be getting no bitches. The market dictates the fee, so is suggest he's well priced. I've seen dogs I believe were WAY overpriced but I think this guy is the next superstar stud dog, us use him for sure if I had the suitable bitch and I'd pay, but I guess you're right in that it's merely an opinion.
Steven Martin Australia (Verified User) Posts 7681 Dogs 180 / Races 66 03 Oct 2014 08:19
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If Westy's Mobile Phone was in your top pocket, maybe you would understand.
The increase may see him get get a couple of hours extra sleep......But I doubt it.
Do you have questions about breeding theories? 
