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Sean O'Donnell Australia (Verified User) Posts 4262 Dogs 64 / Races 54 03 Oct 2014 09:38
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Scott I'd rate myself doing a tad more than you mate I'm far from a keyboard warrior. I agree with Glenn in the fact that if you break down the cost it's no really a big Deal at the end of the day. Yet something I do not agree with.
Yet I tend to think a stud dog should earn his price rises by solid results not on the back of minimal success and to use an excuse is he is filling out his quota so demand states he warrants a price rise.
sorry I see that as a cash grab and the knowledge that people will push that little bit extra because they want to use him and he is the flavor of the month. I remember when I spoke to westy about beKim being pushed up In price before he even had a starter and the fact that I was vocal about that, did he agree with my view? Obviously not.
Anyway what's lost I all this is fare gas is traveling well as a sire and I hope he continues in such a way where his price rise is totally justified.
Really as I said he certainly produces a good looking pup and yes they appear to be able to run.
Mark Chalker Australia (Verified User) Posts 53 Dogs 1 / Races 0 03 Oct 2014 10:11
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Sean I do not know what your problem is with price rise and Paul has every right to put the price up. I have a litter by him and I would use him again at what ever price he is. The reason being he throws a nice pup and what the ones that have raced are doing on the track at this early stage is giving you the reason Paul has put the price up. Pups sold already for a reported price tag of $150 K to China I said on this thread months ago that he would be the next big thing in the stud ranks and I have no reason to change . Sean I know you and what you said early about doing a free service is a load of bull ,,,, Sean I have seen you get yourself into shit on topic so I would suggest you think before you type. You have been in the game 5 minutes but you talk like you have been around for 50 years.
Sean O'Donnell Australia (Verified User) Posts 4262 Dogs 64 / Races 54 03 Oct 2014 11:12
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Mark no doubt your pups look fantastic and you have every reason to be happy with them, I never took much notice of Fabregas until I saw your litter in the flesh. You are correct in Paul having every right to put up the price of his stud dog. yes I'm sure I make few people happy about voicing my opinion's and yes the general consensus is I have no idea what I'm saying and have only been in the game 5 minutes. I cant see where I've ever said about doing a free service. Anyway good luck with the bunnies on the weekend.
This thread not about me so I will remove myself now as its futile to express opinion's on here regardless of they are right or wrong. Mark your no different to most of the others who come out and hammer what I say and to be honest I did think you were.
Grant Thomas Australia (Verified User) Posts 11447 Dogs 64 / Races 20 03 Oct 2014 14:23
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Once AGAIN a *hit fight...Was just asking IF justified as we have Elite State cheaper ; Lochinvar Marlow cheaper...NOT for me to judge what the owner or stud master charge..
Patrick D'Arcy Australia (Verified User) Posts 188 Dogs 3 / Races 0 03 Oct 2014 18:57
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grant thomas wrote:
Once AGAIN a *hit fight...Was just asking IF justified as we have Elite State cheaper ; Lochinvar Marlow cheaper...NOT for me to judge what the owner or stud master charge..
I've got a strong feeling that Fabregas's stats will eventually be better than both the stud dogs you mentioned Grant. I have a 5mth litter by Fabregas, & will definitely be getting another straw. $2200 just may look cheap in the future
Mark Chalker Australia (Verified User) Posts 53 Dogs 1 / Races 0 03 Oct 2014 21:10
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John I would do yourself a favour get along and have a look at a few Fabregas litters iand see what sort of pup he throws and you may change your tune.,When you you do your stats please do them at the same time in their stud careers which will give you a good guide .
John McAlister Australia (Verified User) Posts 6567 Dogs 1 / Races 0 04 Oct 2014 00:30
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Mark I do the 1st 10 litters of the sires to compare them I have Brett Lee Fabregas is already up on his thread for his early days I will get a better guide in March next year when his pups are getting up to the 30 month or so in age mark the other 2 won't be that hard as they have fair age dogs that have raced
Sean O'Donnell Australia (Verified User) Posts 4262 Dogs 64 / Races 54 04 Oct 2014 08:44
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So I Contacted Paul today and had a fair conversation and I agreed I only saw my perspective and he detailed the entire picture from his perspective as a stud master and we talked in depth and he went into entire detail of the stud game and the short window stud dogs have, about the limitations of stud quotas and these comparisons to the USA stud market and drawing quotas. As usual he was kind with his time and is a great bloke, doesn't bear a grudge.
so I have a different perspective about the added reasons for an increase in stud fees beyond performance based reasons.
Darren Langley Australia (Verified User) Posts 3160 Dogs 12 / Races 0 04 Oct 2014 08:52
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Sean O'Donnell wrote:
So I Contacted Paul today and had a fair conversation and I agreed I only saw my perspective and he detailed the entire picture from his perspective as a stud master and we talked in depth and he went into entire detail of the stud game and the short window stud dogs have, about the limitations of stud quotas and these comparisons to the USA stud market and drawing quotas. As usual he was kind with his time and is a great bloke, doesn't bear a grudge.
so I have a different perspective about the added reasons for an increase in stud fees beyond performance based reasons.
Paul may forgive but he won't forget.......
Great bloke Westy his boy is doing really well and I'm sure there are plenty more good pups to come.
Phil Hall Australia (Verified User) Posts 1320 Dogs 21 / Races 21 04 Oct 2014 08:54
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Sean O'Donnell wrote:
So I Contacted Paul today and had a fair conversation and I agreed I only saw my perspective and he detailed the entire picture from his perspective as a stud master and we talked in depth and he went into entire detail of the stud game and the short window stud dogs have, about the limitations of stud quotas and these comparisons to the USA stud market and drawing quotas. As usual he was kind with his time and is a great bloke, doesn't bear a grudge.
so I have a different perspective about the added reasons for an increase in stud fees beyond performance based reasons.
don't have to justify sean you posted what you said and that was your opinion and there is nothing wrong with that
John McAlister Australia (Verified User) Posts 6567 Dogs 1 / Races 0 04 Oct 2014 10:03
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Well my opinion is that was all crap studmasters would rape the market if they could if they were allowed to split a quota into a 1000 straws they would this What they are allowed and the restrictions is just pure crap they wanted more than 14 services a month a long long time ago well before frozen Sean stick to your guns Fabregas might be a leading stud dog one day at present he isn't so where does that leave us up shit creek because when it comes to greed some of the guys are like used car salesmen
David Deguara United Kingdom (Team Member) Posts 958 Dogs 81 / Races 93 04 Oct 2014 11:26
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It amazes me how people get so worked up about an increase in a sire's stud fee, yet barely mention or bat an eye-lid when every single day items such as bread, milk, etc, increase on a regular basis. The "Corporates" can, and do, fleece us on every item, yet when an individual raises his price he gets ridiculed, questioned and is labelled greedy?
Sean, bothered to phone the man (Paul), to which I commend him, and it would appear after speaking to him (Paul) his opinion has been tempered slightly, he suddenly realises there is indeed two sides to every story, and probably also received a small insight into the stud game, and it's operation, running costs, etc.
Whatever we think, running a stud dog is a business, but unlike a lot of businesses, by it's simple nature it is not an infinite business, who knows how long Fabregas will be around? who knows how long he will remain fertile? etc. Just because "we" the public don't like to see prices rise, doesn't mean they won't, and if Paul believes he is justified in putting up the price then so be it, after all, he is the "business" who will suffer if breeders "shun" the dog because of the price rise.
Put ourselves momentarily in Paul's shoes, if you/we owned the dog I bet there is not one of us who wouldn't look to maximise income ("profits") from the dog if demand suggested we could, yet when sitting on the other side of the fence it isn't called "maximising profit's/income, it's called - greed! ...well if anyone actually knew Paul (and his Family), then "greedy" definitely isn't a term I would associate with the man - intelligent, acumen, caring, etc are words I would associate with him.
Troy Bushell Australia (Verified User) Posts 459 Dogs 4 / Races 41 04 Oct 2014 11:38
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So you guys bitching about a sires fee going up can i ask on the opposite side if you buy a straw for say $1100 than after success that same straw goes up to $3300 do you sling the studmaster $500 for making your profit??
David Deguara United Kingdom (Team Member) Posts 958 Dogs 81 / Races 93 04 Oct 2014 11:54
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Troy
Nor do they feel guilty or think twice about selling it for the increased price, if that is the going rate ...how many people would sell it for the original price of $1,100?
Sandro Bechini Australia (Verified User) Posts 19488 Dogs 15268 / Races 1856 04 Oct 2014 11:56
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Dave
He was never $1,100. That was just an example that Troy gave.
He started at $1,650 when he went to stud 2 years ago
Troy Bushell Australia (Verified User) Posts 459 Dogs 4 / Races 41 04 Oct 2014 12:01
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david deguara wrote:
Troy
Nor do they feel guilty or think twice about selling it for the increased price, if that is the going rate ...how many people would sell it for the original price of $1,100?
Exactly David.
David Deguara United Kingdom (Team Member) Posts 958 Dogs 81 / Races 93 04 Oct 2014 12:07
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Sandro
I know, I was referring solely to Troy's example of a straw (any straw), being originally bought for $1,100 ...would that person sell that particular straw for their original outlay of $1,100 if they could get $3,300 for it? (I know you as an accountant definitely wouldn't)
Sandro Bechini Australia (Verified User) Posts 19488 Dogs 15268 / Races 1856 04 Oct 2014 12:15
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Dave
You don't have to be an accountant to work that one out LOL
John McAlister Australia (Verified User) Posts 6567 Dogs 1 / Races 0 04 Oct 2014 12:39
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David I am not getting worked up I think the dog has the makings of a successful stud dog but gee excuses for raising the price does'nt wash with me mate I don't know how much shopping you do when it comes to looking after yourself but I do a lot and I mean a lot.I bought 2 loaves f bread for 6.00 that price hasn't varied for a long time I bought 2 loaves reduced from 1.00 to 85c for the house pets I don't buy meat from Coles and Woolies because it's Z grade meat and I can get it cheaper at the local butchers for anything up to 5.00 a kg cheaper and you can chew it and that's Rump and T Bone my Milk I like top of the range with no frills like free range and organic cow milk like how f'n stupid are we for copping that one and eggs yep free range eggs they put the chooks in a trailer that they pull around the paddock when they decide to move them like the chooks free range in a 3 metre square and get towed about,and you know it gets sillier yet one hears all these excuses for a price hike.I know I don't have to use Fabregas I'm not obligated to do that but the way I feel about stud masters and the prices they charge for these freshman sires is a joke especially when they throw a couple of half handy pups and as far as buying straws at say 1000 and selling them at a later date is like buying into the futures market only there is more flops and failures in Stud dogs then what there is in Oranges and wheat etc.
Nick Grimley Australia (Verified User) Posts 305 Dogs 2 / Races 0 04 Oct 2014 12:59
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Troy Bushell wrote:
So you guys bitching about a sires fee going up can i ask on the opposite side if you buy a straw for say $1100 than after success that same straw goes up to $3300 do you sling the studmaster $500 for making your profit??
Hey, Troy, there is another unmentioned opposite.. If the sire turned out to be a flop, and the breeder retained the whole litter, would a 'studmaster' throw the breeder $15k to cover half of the breeders cost.....I think not?
Fabregas is interesting, going along nicely for a first season sire, but make no mistake, in comparison to other sires of similar ilk, he's overpriced.
Do you have questions about breeding theories? 
