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Do you have questions regarding the health of your greyhound? Do you need tips what you should feed your dog?
Or do you need advice in curing an injury?

Greyhound Dietpage  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 


Jamie Quinlivian
Australia
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Posts 8727
Dogs 10 / Races 0

04 Feb 2017 03:32


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Peter Bryce wrote:

Unfortunately these trainers wont tell you what they are using as they are your competitor.

Aint that the truth.




Peter Bryce
Australia
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Posts 706
Dogs 0 / Races 0

04 Feb 2017 04:38


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In the last 10 years I have had trainers work with me and adjust Carb Fat Protein values to arrive at the example Diet that I promote

Here is the University Of Florida research I refer to for your information

Effect of increased dietary protein and decreased dietary carbohydrate on performance and body composition in racing Greyhounds.

Hill RC1, Lewis DD, Scott KC, Omori M, Jackson M, Sundstrom DA, Jones GL, Speakman JR, Doyle CA, Butterwick RF.

Author information

Abstract

OBJECTIVE:

To determine effects of increased dietary protein and decreased dietary carbohydrate on hematologic variables, body composition, and racing performance in Greyhounds.

ANIMALS:

8 adult Greyhounds.

PROCEDURE:

Dogs were fed a high-protein (HP; 37% metabolizable-energy [ME] protein, 33% ME fat, 30% ME carbohydrate) or moderate-protein (MP; 24% ME protein, 33% ME fat, 43% ME carbohydrate) extruded diet for 11 weeks. Dogs subsequently were fed the other diet for 11 weeks (crossover design). Dogs raced a distance of 500 m twice weekly. Rectal temperature, hematologic variables before and after racing, plasma volume, total body water, body weight, average weekly food intake, and race times were measured at the end of each diet period.

RESULTS:

When dogs were fed the MP diet, compared with the HP diet, values (mean +/- SD) differed significantly for race time (32.43 +/- 0.48 vs 32.61 +/- 0.50 seconds), body weight (32.8 +/- 2.5 vs 32.2 +/- 2.9 kg), Hct before (56 +/- 4 vs 54 +/- 6%) and after (67 +/- 3 vs 64 +/- 8%) racing, and glucose (131 +/- 16 vs 151 +/- 27 mg/dl) and triglyceride (128 +/- 17 vs 104 +/- 28 mg/dl) concentrations after racing.

CONCLUSIONS AND CLINICAL RELEVANCE:

Greyhounds were 0.18 seconds slower (equivalent to 0.08 m/s or 2.6 m) over a distance of 500 m when fed a diet with increased protein and decreased carbohydrate. Improved performance attributed to feeding meat to racing Greyhounds apparently is not attributable to increased dietary protein and decreased dietary carbohydrate.

In concluding I ask you to consider the following
In a 500metre race the Greyhound has approximately 125 strides
A stride being from each paw making contact with the track surface.
Approx 2 metres per stride - Using the Diet I promoted I believe that if you were to only increase the stride by 1cm X 125 that would equate to 1.25metres
However I believe with the correct racing fuels you can achieve a 2cm per stride improvement from Muscle / Tendon function equating to 2.5metres (As per results from the above research)
How does this occur - The Muscles and tendons extend the Skeletal System not the other way around.
If you don't have the correct fuel you cant expect to achieve this result




Peter Bryce
Australia
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04 Feb 2017 05:44


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Jamie
This is a Diet no mention of Supplements
Natural Ingredients??
Meat
Bread Rice Oat
Fat Fatty Acid Omega 3 6 9 Oil
They all Natural!!



Peter Bryce
Australia
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Posts 706
Dogs 0 / Races 0

04 Feb 2017 05:45


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Micheal please don't confuse 1% Carb as major source of Energy
Protein remains the major source
500 gram of Meat (Protein)
300 gram Carbohydrate ( Bread Rice Vegetables Oat)
240 mil Water
Carbohydrate is NOT the major energy source
I did say High Carbohydrate
When Trainers feed 240g High Protein Kibble
600g to 700g Meat
That is a 75% to 80% Protein Diet
Interpretation can lead to misrepresentation





Jamie Quinlivian
Australia
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Posts 8727
Dogs 10 / Races 0

04 Feb 2017 07:56


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Peter Bryce wrote:

Jamie
This is a Diet no mention of Supplements
Natural Ingredients??
Meat
Bread Rice Oat
Fat Fatty Acid Omega 3 6 9 Oil
They all Natural!!

Also simple Peter.
Which you said doesn't work.



Karen Repia
Australia
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Posts 755
Dogs 7 / Races 0

04 Feb 2017 08:15


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Peter, rice apparently has quite high levels of arsenic in it, do you think it would give you a positive swab if you fed it daily instead of kibble?



Richard Gray
Australia
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Posts 2231
Dogs 11 / Races 9

04 Feb 2017 08:49


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Geez this thread is all over the joint. If your dog is hungry (which is every morning / night)Just bloody feed it! be it a rib eye steak, kibble, mince, vegies, porridge, vegemite on toast, 2x4, rice, pasta, chicken, Big Mac, Quarter Pounder, Dim Sims (steamed or fried) KFC or fricken Tofu.

If the bastard can run, it wont matter.

JMO. Rich.




Peter Bryce
Australia
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Posts 706
Dogs 0 / Races 0

04 Feb 2017 09:38


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Good question Karen
This issue is causing confusion with trainers
Firstly
Brown Rice is said to contain 80% higher level of Arsenic than White Rice
The major issue with swabable substances in the Racing Greyhound is that not enough Trainers take flushing Kidney & Liver seriously enough.
I hear "You Don't Need Supplements" from countless trainers
Well flushing with a Diuretic will flush these substances and keep accumulation from becoming an issue
I have many Trainers using KFS Kidney Function Solution who feed Brown rice with no issues
If you don't want to flush I suggest you use White Rice.
Feeding Seaweed Meal Kelp is another issue
It is in Winning Formula AVM-D in correct portion - However I hear of trainers who supplement 1/2 teaspoon twice a week which is far to high when dealing with Arsenic
1/4 Teaspoon once weekly will assist Thyriod




Peter Bryce
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 706
Dogs 0 / Races 0

04 Feb 2017 09:41


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Jamie
My reference to Simple was the Kibble and Meat diet
The measuring of Carbohydrate - Fat /Fatty Acid and Protein to suit the bodyweight of the Greyhound is NOT simple for many
It needs a bit of thinking and working through



Peter Bryce
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 706
Dogs 0 / Races 0

04 Feb 2017 09:45


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Richard I suggest you read the article reference from the University of Florida
2 groups of 11 Greyhounds with 2 different diets
The AVERAGE time for 500metres proved to be 2.6metres quicker on the Carb Fat Protein Diet opposed to the Protein Fat Carb diet
Go ahead feed Big Macs etc if you believe you will gain the maximum performance from your Animal Athlete
And if he cant run???
I believe the University research will have a better result than
Old Time Kibble Meat Diets



Kevin Wright
Australia
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Posts 5708
Dogs 1 / Races 1

04 Feb 2017 20:08


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Here you go pete just to keep the debate going ....

Dogs are Wolves

Dr. Billingurst refers to the principle behind the BARF diet as evolutionary nutrition.

It is now generally agreed that the ancestor of the modern dog is the wolf[the] process of domestication where our ancestors removed the wildness from the wolf, involved thousands of years of selective breedingIn this process, our ancestors produced hundreds of different looking wolvesour ancestors made only two basic changes to the wolf. They changed the wolfs appearance and they changed its mind. What they did not change, was the basic internal workings or physiology of the wolfAs a result, the basic workings or physiology of modern dogs is no different or very little different to their ancestor the wolfThe basic environment which the modern dog requires in terms of food and exercise is exactly the same as it was (and still is) for the wolf.

Having established that, despite appearances, dogs are essentially wolves, Dr. Billinghurst goes on to describe the wolf diet.

Raw bones with meat are a major part of their diet They eat offal such as liver and heart. They eat raw eggs. They eat decaying materialThey eat a wide variety of foodstuffs. Insects, bark, soil, birds complete with their tiny bones and feathers whatever. Every meal they eat is totally raw. Not one skerrick of it is cooked. Ever. They eat vegetables including herbs, from the gut of their prey. This vegetable material is raw, totally crushed and partly digested. They eat feces. A wolfs diet contain almost no grains For a wolf not one single meal consists of dry dog food. They dont eat canned dog food either.

Finally, he makes the connection between this version of canine natural history and the feeding of pet dogs.

How do you feed a dog properly? You feed it the diet that it evolved to eat. Its [sic] evolutionary diet. A Biologically Appropriate Raw Food diet. A BARF dietA biologically appropriate diet for a dog is one that consists of raw whole foods similar to those eaten by the dogs wild ancestors. The food fed must contain the same balance and type of ingredients as consumed by those wild ancestorsPlease note that modern dogs of any breed are not only capable of eating the food of their wild ancestors, but actually require it for maximum health. This is because their basic physiology has changed very little with domestication despite obvious and dramatic changes in their current physical appearance and mindset

Certainly a clear, simple, and pretty persuasive argument on the face of it. Taxonomically and phylogenetically, dogs are carnivores and their ancestors ate live prey and carrion, so they must be designed for a diet as close as reasonably possible to that for which they were designed by evolution.

Some raw diet advocates extend this basic argument by claiming that the domestic dogs gastrointestinal tract is anatomically identical to that of the wolf and so the same dietary needs can be assumed. Others contribute additional arguments in favor of raw foods, such as the well-known homeopathic and holistic veterinarian Dr. Richard Pitcairn:

All processed pet foodsare missing something that seems to me to be the most important nutrient of all. This key ingredient is practically ignored by nutritional scientists, but we can sense it when its there. It is a quality found only in freshly grown, uncooked whole foods: Life energy!1

But while there are variations on the theme, and there are frequent and often bitter arguments over precisely which ingredients are best, and in what form or proportion, the basic evolutionary nutrition argument is advanced by all proponents of raw diets.

Processed Commercial Diets are Unhealthy

The other major component to the argument for raw diets is that the commercial diets most of us feed our dogs are inadequate, and possibly outright unhealthy. According to Dr. Billinghursts web site,

as a practicing veterinary surgeon, I constantly see the enormous difference in health between pets raised on commercial pet food compared to those raised on a biologically appropriate raw food diet. I see the enormous change for good in the health of pets switched from cooked to a raw whole food dietMost degenerative disease processes in pet animals are the direct result of a lifetime being fed cooked and/or processed foods

He goes on to claim that the nutritional deficiency diseases seen in the early 20th century, when most pets were fed table scraps, were simple and easily treated, but thanks to processed foods these have been replaced by vast array of complex and insidious degenerative diseases which now afflict our pets and fill our textbooks and waiting rooms. He further claims that,

Processed pet foods contain barely adequate levels of the known vitaminsMany contain biologically inappropriate antioxidants, enormous levels of refined sugars and masses of salt together with other chemicals used as colorings and flavorings. This chemical cocktail is a lethal brew which is a major factor in producing the epidemic of degenerative disease leading to the early death and suffering we see in pet animals fed such rubbish, including cancer, arthritis and a range of allergies and auto immune diseasesCooking renders these products biologically inappropriate in a fundamental wayThe vast majority of these products are based on cooked grains. This makes them biologically inappropriate. At no time in their evolutionary history (except in the last 50 to 150 years) have cats and dogs been subjected to cooked grain in any amount, and certainly not as the basis of their diet.

Commercial foods are also denigrated for a variety of supposedly dangerous ingredients, including (according to Dr. Pitcairn):

Toxic products from spoiled foodstuffs
Drug residues
Hormone levels comparable to amounts that have produced cancer in laboratory animals
Artificial colors, flavors, and preservatives, all of which he claims are responsible for an epidemic of cancer and degenerative diseases
And even euthanized dogs and cats, which he claims are routinely rendered by veterinary hospitals or shelters and recycled into pet food.1

Cancer, arthritis, allergies, autoimmune disease, and many other conditions are frequently claimed to be the result of eating commercial pet foods. But, of course, proponents of raw diets dont always limit their critique of commercial foods to claims about nutrition and health which could be empirically examined. Some also paint commercial pet food manufacturers as villains killing pets for profit and veterinarians as their willing, or at least duped, accomplices. A blog entry on Dr. Billinghurstss website asks,

What is the primary motive of kibble manufactures? Is it profit or nutritional value? The inferior quality and poor utilization of ingredients is masked by the addition of heat, flavor enhancers, and harmful fat sprays. The kibble manufactures are aware of the potential dangers and potential harm to our dogs but it all boils down to producing an inexpensive product that can sustain and maintain the life of our dogsfor the kibble manufactures it all boils down to profit with a capital P.

Another proponent of raw diets, Dr. Tom Lonsdale, claims he is

selling plenty of his book Raw Meaty Bones in the US but the Australian media seems to have blacked [sic] him out because the multinational pet food companies dont want their dodgy doggy tucker exposed [web article 1]Natural pet food is cheaper, pets live healthier longer lives, vet bills reduce [sic] and the environment gets a better deal. Except for the artificial pet food companies and their veterinary allies its a win, win, win situationjunk food is responsible for the majority of pet diseases there are both upstream and downstream implications worth $billions. Upstream those that run the systems pet-food makers, veterinary profession, veterinary schools, animal welfare bodies, governments, retailers, and consumers conspire to maintain the racket The full extent of the junk pet-food fraud may never be fully known. [web article 2]

Some Inconvenient Truths

Now lets have a look at the problems with this raw dog food marketing propaganda. To begin with, the concept of evolutionary nutrition ignores the simple fact that taxonomy and phylogeny are not destiny, nor do they reliably predict the specific details of a species biology, including its nutritional needs. Sure, dogs are in the order Carnivora, but so are giant pandas, which are almost exclusively herbivorous. Functionally, dogs are omnivores or facultative carnivores, not obligate carnivores, and they are well-suited to an omnivorous diet regardless of their taxonomic classification or ancestry.

Domestic dogs did branch off from a wolf ancestor, and current DNA evidence suggests this occurred some 100,000-135,000 years ago.2,3 Though the data are unclear as to what morphologic or ecological changes might have occurred following this initial divergence, and while it is likely that there was much ongoing genetic exchange between dogs and wolves even after they diverged, it is still the case that dogs have not been wolves for a very long time. However, a distinct phenotypic divergence of dogs and wolves followed the development of more sedentary agricultural habits by many human groups some 10-15,000 years ago, which placed new selection pressures on our canines companions.31 Since then numerous anatomic and behavioral changes that have occurred first as a result of living with humans and sharing our food. And even more dramatic changes have been wrought on dogs in the last about 3000 years as a consequence of intensive selective breeding. Domestic dogs exhibit many features of neoteny, the retention of juvenile characteristics into adulthood. They have smaller and less robust skulls and dentition, and numerous features of their skeleton, GI tract, and other anatomic structures are significantly different from wolves. 4-6

Of course, anatomy does not always correlate with function anyway. All humans have essentially the same GI tract from an anatomical perspective, but when someone who is lactose intolerant chugs a glass of milk, he or she may be treated to a visceral demonstration of the fact that anatomy doesnt necessarily predict function. But in the case of dogs and wolves, the claim that they are anatomically identical with respect to what is an appropriate diet is simply not true. If you try to picture a pack of Chihuahuas bringing down and savaging an elk, the impact of thousands of years of artificial selection is obvious. Other breeds may be more like wolves in appearance, but they are none of them truly wolves. Dogs have lived with humans, eaten our table scraps, and been intensively bred for features we desire, none of which is likely to make them ideally designed for the diet of a wolf.

Of course, even if BARF advocates could demonstrate that dogs were functionally equivalent to wolves in terms of diet, the evolutionary nutrition argument would still fail because at its heart it is nothing but a form of the naturalistic fallacy.

The average life expectancy of wolves in the wild is considerably lower than that of captive wolves, and disease, parasitism, and malnutrition are important factors in the mortality of wild populations.7-9 Captive wolves live longest and are healthiest when fed guess what? commercial dog food! This is the recommendation of the leading specialists in captive wolf husbandry and medicine, and it is largely the result of evidence that the previous practice of feeding raw meat based diets to captive wolves led to poorer quality nutrition and health than the current practices. Certainly, raw meat and bones are often used as enrichment items or bait for husbandry purposes, but always with an awareness of the risks they pose, and never as the primary diet. 10-12

BARF proponents persistently confound ingredients with nutrients. They imagine that because wild canids get their nutrients from raw whole carcasses that this must be the only appropriate source of nutrition for all canids, including domestic dogs despite the fact they have been eating our cooked leftovers for tens of thousands of years. This is contradicted, however, by extensive research in canine nutrition and by the generations of dogs who have lived long, healthy lives eating commercial pet foods.

Which leads to the second pillar of the BARF argument, the safety and nutritional adequacy of commercial pet foods. Like all knowledge based on science, our understanding of the nutritional needs of dogs is incomplete and always evolving. However, admitting that we do not know everything is not tantamount to admitting we know nothing. The basic nutrient requirements of our pets are well-established by decades of research, and despite the claims of BARF proponents there is no evidence that nutritional disease are widespread among pets fed balanced commercial diets.
Commercial dog foods are formulated according to AAFCO standards based on extensive nutritional research. These foods are testing through laboratory methods for nutrient content before and after processing, and many are subjected to feeding trials to determine their digestibility and the adequacy of their nutritional content as fed to healthy dogs. These reference standards and limited feeding trials are, like the basic pharmacology and preclinical testing of pharmaceuticals, not perfect, and it is certainly likely that advances in our understanding of dogs nutritional needs as well as epidemiologic studies of dogs fed commercial diets will uncover changes that need to be made in the formulations of commercial diets. But the data we do have strongly supports the nutritional appropriateness of these foods. 13,14
By contrast, homemade and commercial raw diets are seldom tested for nutritional adequacy, and when they have been tested they have usually failed to meet known nutrient requirements. 15-18. The knowledge of established nutritional science concerning the adequacy of commercial pet diets, imperfect though it may be, is certainly superior to the near total ignorance of the nutritional adequacy of most homemade of commercial raw diets.
There are many specific criticisms of commercial dog foods made in support of the BARF concept, but there is little evidence to support most of them, and some are clearly false. There are far more than I can deal with in a reasonable space, but I will address a few of the more common of these claims.

Commercial Dog Food Makes Dogs Sick: There is no evidence to support the claim that degenerative and immune-mediated diseases or cancers are caused by commercial pet foods. These conditions are the usual targets of alternative medicine proponents because the gaps in our knowledge about the etiology of these diseases leave room for them to insert their favorite bogeymen, in this case commercial pet food. The likelihood is that the prevalence of these categories of disease reflects, at least to some extent, the aging of the pet population, which is the result of the reduction in historic causes of mortality such as infectious diseases, trauma, and of course malnutrition.
Commercial Dog Foods are Toxic: The insinuation that commercial pet foods are full of toxins is also unsupported. Common preservatives, such as ethoxyquin, butylated hydroxytoluene, and others with scary-sounding chemical names, have been in use in human and animal foods for decades and studied extensively, and there is no published evidence to support the many claims and anecdotes that indicate these are responsible for disease.19,20 Synthetic preservatives are more effective than natural anti-oxidants, and they are an important tool for reducing food-borne illness.
Anti-vaccine activists have mercury, aluminum, and anti-freeze, and BARF advocates have preservatives and artificial flavoring and coloring agents. What neither have is solid evidence to support their fear-mongering regarding these substances
Dogs Cant Digest Grain: It is frequently claimed, based primarily on the fallacious logic of evolutionary nutrition, that dogs are incapable of digesting grains or that these make poor nutrient sources in dog foods. Extensive evidence from laboratory research and feeding trials illustrates this is false and that cooked grains are excellent energy sources and can also provide protein and other important nutrients to dogs.21,23 Grains are also often blamed for food allergies, but while some dogs may develop allergies to plant proteins, the evidence suggests that the vast majority of food sensitivities in dogs are to animal proteins.24
Cooking Destroys Nutrients: BARFers like to claim that cooking destroys nutrients, so processed foods must be nutrient deficient. It is true that some nutrients are destroyed by cooking, but the relationship between temperature and cooking time and the final level of these nutrients in the food is well established, and commercial foods are supplemented to account for this and extensively tested in vitro and in vivo to ensure adequate nutrient levels. Other nutrients, particularly carbohydrates, are made more available by cooking.22,23 And cooking destroys many parasites and bacterial organisms responsible for serious foodborne illness.
Our ancestors ate raw food for millennia prior to the discovery of fire, and our nearest living relatives, chimpanzees, dont cook their food. Yet for some reason even most advocates of BARF diets for dogs dont eat primarily raw plants, insects, and the occasional bit of scavenged or deliberately killed raw meat that evolutionary nutrition would suggest they should be eating.
Commercial Dog Food is Made from Dead Pets: One of the most repulsive accusations made concerning commercial diets is that manufacturers routinely include the rendered carcasses of euthanized pets in their products. Such a practice would be illegal and has been specifically disavowed by dog food manufacturers and the plants that slaughterhouses and rendering plants that provide them with their ingredients. The FDA has investigated this story and has not found evidence to support it.
It is true that miniscule levels of pentobarbital, an anesthetic used to euthanize animals, have been found in some foods. The source of this has not been identified, though no trace of dog or cat DNA was found in the contaminated food. The most likely source of the contaminant is horses who were euthanized with pentobarbital and improperly rendered along with approved sources of meat for pet foods, though this has not been clearly proven. And it is also true that a few rare cases of dog remains being processed by rendering plants that also supplied pet food manufacturers with ingredients have been documented. However, for this to be a common practice, rather than a rare exception, would require a truly enormous and perfect conspiracy of manufacturers, rendering plants, and government, and as of yet no whistle-blower, journalist, or undercover animal rights activist has yet come forward to reveal evidence of any such conspiracy.

The Bottom Line

The argument that dogs are designed by their evolutionary history to eat raw meat based diets is riddled with errors and fallacies and ignores the impact of tens of thousands of years of domestication and cohabitation with humans on the physiology of our canine friends. The accusations that commercial dog foods are nutritionally inadequate or unsafe are not supported by any objective or scientific evidence, only anecdotes, intuition, and conspiracy theories. There is, in contrast, significant evidence that commercial dog foods are nutritious and healthy and that they have contributed to greater longevity and reduced nutritional and infectious disease morbidity of dogs fed these diets.
The benefits promised by advocates of BARF diets for dogs are numerous. Greater health, less disease, better quality of life, and much more. Dr. Billinghursts web site even claims, Eating bones for a dog is a joyous experience. It is so enjoyed by dogs that it actually of itself boosts their immune system. However, there is absolutely no scientific evidence to support these claims. BARF proponents have no shortage of opinions and anecdotes to demonstrate the benefits of their diets, but they have a severe shortage of data.

The risks of raw meat based diets, however, are well-documented. Homemade diets and commercial BARF diets are often demonstrable unbalanced and have severe nutritional deficiencies or excesses.16-18 Dogs have been shown to acquire and shed parasitic organisms and potentially lethal infectious diseases associated with raw meat, including pathogenic strains of E. coli and Salmonella.25-27 Many other pathogens have been identified in raw diets or raw meat ingredients, and these represent a risk not only to the dogs fed these diets but to their owners, particularly children and people with compromised immune systems.29-30 The bones often included in such diets can cause fractured teeth and gastrointestinal diseases, including obstructed or perforated intestines, and the FDA recently warned pet owners against feeding bones to their canine companions.

So with a dodgy theory behind it, no sound evidence of benefits, and clear risks, there is no justification for recommending raw meat based diets for dogs. As always, I remain open to the possibility that new evidence may emerge to document benefits from such diets that might justify the risks they present, but for now this feeding approach appears to be simply another form of CAM mythology supported only by anecdote and unsound logic.





Kevin Wright
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 5708
Dogs 1 / Races 1

04 Feb 2017 20:09


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Commercial foods are also denigrated for a variety of supposedly dangerous ingredients, including (according to Dr. Pitcairn):

Toxic products from spoiled foodstuffs
Drug residues
Hormone levels comparable to amounts that have produced cancer in laboratory animals
Artificial colors, flavors, and preservatives, all of which he claims are responsible for an epidemic of cancer and degenerative diseases
And even euthanized dogs and cats, which he claims are routinely rendered by veterinary hospitals or shelters and recycled into pet food.1

Cancer, arthritis, allergies, autoimmune disease, and many other conditions are frequently claimed to be the result of eating commercial pet foods. But, of course, proponents of raw diets dont always limit their critique of commercial foods to claims about nutrition and health which could be empirically examined. Some also paint commercial pet food manufacturers as villains killing pets for profit and veterinarians as their willing, or at least duped, accomplices. A blog entry on Dr. Billinghurstss website asks,

What is the primary motive of kibble manufactures? Is it profit or nutritional value? The inferior quality and poor utilization of ingredients is masked by the addition of heat, flavor enhancers, and harmful fat sprays. The kibble manufactures are aware of the potential dangers and potential harm to our dogs but it all boils down to producing an inexpensive product that can sustain and maintain the life of our dogsfor the kibble manufactures it all boils down to profit with a capital P.

Winning Edge Platinum 20kg Bag
Winning Edge Platinum is an excellent source of high quality proteins and energy. Platinum contains a specially formulated blend of poultry and meat proteins, resulting in a higher quality protein which is essential for optimal performance.

Protein (Min) 23%
Fat (Min) 12%
Fibre (Max) 5%
Salt (Max) 1%
Ingredients
Wholegrain, meat & meat by-products derived from beef & sheep, grain by-products, poultry meal, tallow, oil from vegetable seeds, iodised salt, vitamins & minerals, Calcium proprionate (anti mould) & Vitamin E added.

Winning Edge Platinum dog food

VIP Grain free

Ingredients

Meat (Poultry Meal and Meat Meal, Duck and Meat Meals), Vegetable and Vegetable Meals, (including Potato, Peas, Carrots, Pumpkin), Potato and Tapioca Starch, Tallows and Oils (Poultry and Vegetable), Beet Pulp, Chicken Digest, Oilseeds (Canola and Linseed), Egg Powder, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Vitamins (A,D,E,B1,B5,B6, Niacin, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, B12), and Minerals (Calcium, Phosphorus, Iron, Zinc, Copper, Manganese, Iodine, Selenium) Kelp Meal, Choline Chloride, Soy Lecithin Powder, Dried Chicory Root, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Garlic Powder, Tomato Powder, Potassium Sorbate, Natural Antioxidants.

Product benefits include

grainfree+ diet means a healthier diet with reduced allergens throughout the range,
grainfree+delivers functional improvement in the pets health and lifestyle
Digestion & intestinal health
Improved skin & coat condition
Helps strengthen immune system health
LIFESTAGE & HEALTH

Natures goodness grainfree+ provides a complete diet for the adult dog with two distinct variants available in 1.25kg & 3kg

Chicken with Duck and Garden Vegetables also in 7kg
Wild game with Sweet Potato

grainfree+ formula, no wheat, corn, or cereals this is an all natural holistic blend.
Improved digestibility and taste that may provide relief from most food allergy symptoms.
More meat rich real meat injection.
High nutrient proteins to help aid lean muscle development.
Excellent palatability
High quality ingredients with optimal nutrients, increases palatability.
Balanced skin and coat conditioners
Contains omega 3 and 6 Fatty Acids to help maintain healthy skin and coat.
Prebiotics
the building blocks for intestinal health that support and nurture the dogs inside.
Healthy immunity
A healthy active lifestyle and proper nutrition can help support a dogs immune system
Complete and balanced diet
Suitable for all adult life stages and all breeds.
Helps prevent bad breath
A healthy digestion and GI tract, helps prevent bad breath.

Why grainfree for dogs

When dogs roamed the earth they hunted for their meals in the wild, pursuing the nutritional balance they craved, a grain-free blend of multiple, high quality proteins, fruits and vegetables. Carnivores digestive organs were not designed to digest plant materials but they are ideal for breaking down, absorbing and utilizing proteins, bones and fat. A balanced, grain-free diet high in meat proteins provides dogs with necessary and valuable nutrients.

V.I.P has balanced a dogs nutritional needs with a formula that goes back to the grain-free benefits of the wild.
Complete and balanced for all breeds.
Switching to grain-free dry dog food may prevent or stop common allergy symptoms such as itchy skin, chronic ear infections, hair loss, hot spots and excessive scratching.*

*Source Pet Industry News, Grainfree Diets for dogs, Article written by Drs. Foster and Smiths article on Food Allergies and Food Intolerance,

Lets now Pete compare APPLES FOR APPLES ....





Peter Bryce
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 706
Dogs 0 / Races 0

04 Feb 2017 21:26


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 (0)


Kevin
You say lets compare Apples with Apples
First of all the Dog Food Company you refer to uses references to Wolves Domestic Dogs Pets.
I don't recall having seen any of these RACING.
Apples with Apples??
Second your Reference is from a Doctor promoting his brand of dogfood for Canine that Don't race
My reference is from the University Of Florida on 2 Groups of 11 Racing Greyhounds racing over 500 meters a week on 2 different diets
Changeover of Diets and repeating same example
The average over the research demonstrated the Greyhounds were 2.6metres quicker on the Carb Fat Protein diet (Available FREE from me) opposed to the other which is more like Kibble & Meat.
Apples with Apples
As I have said prior "Change is the hardest thing to invoke"
For all those doubters put the worst performing Greyhound in your Kennel on this diet and judge for yourself
I can tell you this diet has saved many Greyhounds from the GAP Program



Peter Bryce
Australia
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04 Feb 2017 21:36


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Kevin
As you have seen from my posts I don't promote Kibble
I said the best in MY opinion is Winning Edge Racing 12% Protein
I did say if you don't feed Oil and want higher fat content Winning Edge Platinum
Where is the Winning Edge Racing Kibble spec in your reference
"I don't believe in Kibble" Salt 1% 250gram in 25kg bag
Salt causes issues to Athletes



Peter Bryce
Australia
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Posts 706
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04 Feb 2017 21:38


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Kevin
As you have seen from my posts I don't promote Kibble
I said the best in MY opinion is Winning Edge Racing 12% Protein
I did say if you don't feed Oil and want higher fat content Winning Edge Platinum
Where is the Winning Edge Racing Kibble spec in your reference
"I don't believe in Kibble" Salt 1% 250gram in 25kg bag
Salt causes issues to Athletes
I am not trying to convert those with fixed mindset
I am merely putting Greyhound Nutritional Research out there for discussion
Discussion has been wide and varied



Jack Ogilvie
Australia
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05 Feb 2017 03:08


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Can some tell me how many trainers giving half a teaspoon of DSK every second day have been pinged.or trainers giving brown rice to their dogs. I think the answer will be. .......



Mark Schlegel
Australia
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05 Feb 2017 03:54


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Jack Ogilvie wrote:

Can some tell me how many trainers giving half a teaspoon of DSK every second day have been pinged.or trainers giving brown rice to their dogs. I think the answer will be. .......

As anyone with a brain and an ounce of training ability will tell you.....the levels for Arsenic, Cobalt, Testosterone etc, etc, etc have been set with ZERO consideration for performance enhancement but rather are entirely based on some arbitrary notion of what a "natural" level should be, usually with little or no scientific basis for the decision.

We have created dozens, if not hundreds of "drug cheats" from people that have done nothing more than present healthy dogs for racing!



Peter Bryce
Australia
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Posts 706
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05 Feb 2017 04:07


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Jack
I believe there are a few cases of Arsenic in Victoria before GRV at present
I believe there is one in South Australia
I also believe there have been fines handed down in NSW
If anyone has more specific information I would be interested



Peter Bryce
Australia
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Posts 706
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05 Feb 2017 04:10


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Kevin
The Kibble I referred to was Winning Edge Racing
Not widely known but it was formulated by Dr John Newell NSW

Winning Edge Kibble 20kg Bag

Winning Edge Kibble offers an excellent source of Omega 3 oils and trace elements required by greyhounds to optimise performance along with digestive carbohydrates for providing energy.

Protein (Min) 12%
Fat (Min) 2.7%
Fibre (Max) 3.9%
Salt (Max) 1%

Winning Edge Racing
Ingredients
Wholegrain wheaten meal, meat meal (from beef & sheep registered abattoirs), di calcium phosphate, salt brewers yeast, garlic & kelp, vitamins A, D3, E, C, B12, B6, B1, B2, Folic & trace minerals including potassium, selenium & chromium.

Unrelated to Kibble:

Calories = ENERGY
Protein and carbohydrates both contain 4 calories per gram, while fat provides 9 calories per gram. Calculating your calorie needs can help you determine how many grams of protein, carbohydrates and fat you should consume each day.
Given that Racing Greyhounds only burn Carbohydrate and Fat on the Racetrack can someone please tell me from which the main source of energy is being provided. FAT??? Correct
Fat is the missing link in many Trainers handbook
Omega 3 6 & 9 as liquid is the most digestible means of supplying Fat / Fatty acid to Muscle/Tendon





Jack Ogilvie
Australia
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Posts 15483
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05 Feb 2017 05:02


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Peter Bryce wrote:

Jack
I believe there are a few cases of Arsenic in Victoria before GRV at present
I believe there is one in South Australia
I also believe there have been fines handed down in NSW
If anyone has more specific information I would be interested

Peter, they were probably giving more than half a teaspoon every second day.

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