The Greyhound-Data Forum has been created to act as a platform for greyhound enthusiasts to share information on this magnificent animal called a greyhound.
Greyhound-Data reserve the right to remove any post that is off topic, advertisements or opinions they consider to be offensive.
If you answer then please try to stay on topic. It's absolutely okay to answer in a broader scope but don't hijack posts by switching to something off topic.
In case you see an insulting post: DO NOT REPLY TO IT!
Use the report button to inform the moderators so that we can delete it.
Steve Harvey Australia (Verified User) Posts 1175 Dogs 0 / Races 0 04 Dec 2015 02:10
(1)
(0)
Mark Donohue wrote:
I'd like to have conversations with the following people on a regular basis to see if we can collectively help industry participants with the massive number of changes that have occurred and will continue to occur, within the industry. It appears that these changes are within larger issues that will ultimately reduce the industry size when some indicators suggest that our industry should be growing. . I'd like to have conversations with the following persons because they seem to have sound knowledge of where we have been, where we are now and where we should be next year, in five years time and beyond. I've restricted it to about twelve, but more can join if it is warranted or required. It is not an elitist group, nor a boys club and one can decline or accept. In no particular order, they are:
Steve Bennie, Jack Gatty, Steve Harvey, Joe Baldacchino, Rod Hampton, Grant Dunphy, Sandro Bechini, Garry Comans, Glen Hatton, Chris van Vegchel, Sandra Giles, or any other persons, male or female. . We could be supported by other States and Territories as we go. . Some of the issues I have collated for discussion are:
ICA Tax Harmonisation Prize money Grading Rules - old and new Race Scheduling across the State Wentworth Park Vets Stewards Swabbing - blood and urine Welfare Race track maintenance and design Participant Support GAP Pet Motel Administration Costs Track ownership Breeding - AI / Natural Rearing Wastage and any others. . Discussions on these issues have been made, but we need to fine-tune and present our arguments to GRNSW as it is our regulator not our leader, but we need to consult with it on every issue that is important. The masses will be advised. Don't be disappointed or annoyed if your name is not on the list. It's not personal. . If it doesn't proceed past this point, I understand and no hard feelings. At least we tried.
Hey Mark. Wow , I finally made some kind of list ! Ha Ha Ha. A bit chuffed about that ! Ha Ha Ha. Well m8 , I'll gladly correspond with yourself via private email regarding anything K9 related that you may want an honest opinion on. I'll just say this though champ, I don't know if I'll be any help 2 you at all as I like 2 distance myself from the "politics" of the K9 game probably cos diplomacy is not 1 of my strong points , I tend 2 just very strongly "hang my hat" on different ideas that I approve of in various issues regarding K9's & lend my full support 2 - hands on type - if you get my drift m8. I'll send you my private email address & just lay back & see what happens ok champ. Regards...
Mark Donohue Australia (Verified User) Posts 3236 Dogs 6 / Races 0 04 Dec 2015 02:42
(0)
(0)
No worries Steve. Just wanna 'pick ya brains' and see where we can go with it. It looks like GRNSW wants to drive us somewhere so just wanna see if we are allowed to go along for the ride.
Mark Donohue Australia (Verified User) Posts 3236 Dogs 6 / Races 0 04 Dec 2015 21:18
Mark Donohue Australia (Verified User) Posts 3236 Dogs 6 / Races 0 05 Dec 2015 07:46
(0)
(0)
Does anyone know if any horse tracks will be closing and its wastage rate ? We are doing better than the other industries right ?
Grant Dunphy Australia (Verified User) Posts 743 Dogs 4 / Races 1 05 Dec 2015 10:47
(0)
(0)
Yes Mark, Horses sometimes wear blinkers but apparently our Minister wears them permanently. more horses put down than dogs-cobalt causing cruel deaths in horses-Trainers guilty of cobalt use-vets on course throwing vials inclusive of cobalt in bin caught on camera-massive overbreeding with poor form mares.You can't act on any of these atrocities if you have blinkers on.
Mark Donohue Australia (Verified User) Posts 3236 Dogs 6 / Races 0 05 Dec 2015 20:30
(0)
(0)
Grant, I don't want to put the 'cart before the horse' but I did hear there might be fourteen tracks to go. Some of them might be TAB tracks. That's more than a third of the current tracks. I thought maybe five but fourteen ? . I did hear they want the Victorian model, but without the money side of it. . I did hear that JWG is made up of a lot of journos. I think there are three JWG members who are 'batting' for us. The rest are unknown voters. I wait with great anticipation to see the proposed new model.
Jack Gatty Australia (Verified User) Posts 2055 Dogs 1 / Races 0 05 Dec 2015 22:16
(0)
(0)
Journos - that is a joke right?
John McAlister Australia (Verified User) Posts 6567 Dogs 1 / Races 0 05 Dec 2015 22:53
(0)
(0)
Mark let's look at yesterdays non TAB meetings there were 8 in total with an average of 8-1/2 races per meeting with 400 up for grabs in prizemoney so 8 x 8.5 x 400 = 27200 was raced for with no way of making anything from those meetings in profits from TAB turnover.if they do that for 52 weeks it becomes 52 x 27.2 = 1,414,400 now that's a lot of moola to be throwing down the drain the days of country racing in greyhounds is finished unless they regionalise and rationalise even culling 14 will not be enough
John McAlister Australia (Verified User) Posts 6567 Dogs 1 / Races 0 05 Dec 2015 23:46
(0)
(0)
There are many ways GRNSW can look at the Industry as an Industry but whatever they do they must look to the future and aim at the New Brigade that will come along yes the New Investors they hopefully will come along as time goes onwards Wentworth Park should go to Richmond and it becomes the Premier track in NSW racing thrice weekly 2 x A meetings 1x B meeting prizemomey for this meeting is 3000 a race 1800 to the winner The Riverina tracks will become 1 Centralised stadium GRNSW meet with the participants from this area to decide where their best option lay all meetings TAB The Hunter the only scope we have of going forwatd is to present this area with a track of excellence at Cessnock in this day and age this is the Hub of the Hunter with the Vineyards the Thoroughbreds along with the other Industries and the traffic they bring into the Town, a Dual track with a future look on building Units for Accomodation so travellers so visitors can be put up overnite 24/7 North Coast god they built a Racetrack for Horses at Tuncurry so people could have a few meetings during the year especially at Xmas so why not 1 track of excellence there not Tuncurry but at 1 of the other 3 Tracks To the Far North Coast the same and again in the West By doing this we in NSW would be supplying a product that people could bet on everyday of the week and done right the product would be far superior to Victoria our Nemesis Less tracks supplying the same product we have now is the way to go if GRNSW does it's homework right they could maybe adjust down to 10 tracks placed in the right Regions racing once a week on a Sand surface is a complete waste of money the Halcyon days are gone and you can't run a business going down hill fast and nowhere quick with people that want yesterdays achievements in todays climate Why plant a tree that only gives you shade why not plant one which you can eat from and that also gives you shade
Jack Gatty Australia (Verified User) Posts 2055 Dogs 1 / Races 0 05 Dec 2015 23:59
(0)
(0)
John - so where do all these Dogs race that they are so concerned about? Not saying your wrong or not being realistic but you know I just race a few round the country tracks for pleasure for my dogs even though it costs me thousands with very little return. If they want to reduce 'wastage' (a term I despise). Where do these Dogs that filter through to County racing go? On another note I find it hilarious how the thoroughbred industry gets around their 'wastage' issue with smoke and mirrors. I heard a thoroughbred spokesman the other day, tell a reporter that 90% of horses go to equestrian industry. Considering an estimated 14,000 - 16,000 race horses go to equestrian (lol) each year you would think every second person in Australia must be involved in equestrian events. When the truth is they may well pass on the majority of horses that don't make the grade in racing to the equestrian industry and then the equestrian mob get maybe a hundred or two that go on to compete and they dispose of the rest to the knackers and the thoroughbreds have blindsided the public and given the government a way out. Pity our regulators are not as clever.
Mark Donohue Australia (Verified User) Posts 3236 Dogs 6 / Races 0 06 Dec 2015 00:09
(0)
(0)
John, I understand your ideas. However, we still only get the 13% from ICA no matter how good we are. You haven't factored in wastage, travel time, slow dogs. So, the dog who doesn't like the lone track in the region has to move out of the area or the owner and/or trainer will have to travel an extra two to four hours more to race ? Prize money will increase for sure. Well, one would think it would hey ? Interesting debate.
John McAlister Australia (Verified User) Posts 6567 Dogs 1 / Races 0 06 Dec 2015 00:31
(0)
(0)
Jack it's a very simple answer you are going to get on that Question we at present have an Order Of Choice when Grading which means the best 8 go into the race along with the next 2 as reserves we have mainly 2 grades on the TAB tracks well most tracks really apart from Maidens we have 5th Grade and 4th/5th Grade ocassionly we have a FFA then Features back to Order Of Choice this is the same/similar system that has been stolen from the gallops and applied a little differently for Greyhounds. On the Calender a club advertises what heats of races are coming up whether it be 1 to 4 wins, Maitland to City Hts and outside of races like this the trainer has very little input to what races he can nominate there after fact The Club advertises Heats for 50 Points and under the best 48 drawn and there is your answer Jack no dog above 50 points can be nominated even a 1st up Maiden winner would be ineligible because it would have a starting point of 50 and would move up above 50 with the win which means a maiden that has had a start and has been beaten would be eligible. When they advertise 1 to 3 wins means you still will/may be out graded and your dog makes up the field When they advertise 0 to 50 points or a 0 to 40 Point race you won't be out graded whether by wins or points you will be racing like
Jack Gatty Australia (Verified User) Posts 2055 Dogs 1 / Races 0 06 Dec 2015 00:48
(0)
(0)
Hi John, forgot to tell you I got your shot of Melena looking very Xmassy. Nice shot. Lol. I get the grading point but if the tracks don't exist they can't cater for all the dogs. If you look at the country fields they are always full, the same cannot be said for the Tab meetings. You don't see Gunnedah, Tamworth, Armidale or Musswelbrook extending acceptances as they fill up as soon as they open. I don't disagree with you just don't see the regulators point if they say welfare is the centre of all decisions. If that was not their motto then I could understand their plans to rationalise tracks but that is a financial decision in my eyes with zero to do with welfare. Jmo
John McAlister Australia (Verified User) Posts 6567 Dogs 1 / Races 0 06 Dec 2015 00:52
(0)
(0)
Mark we will never get more than 13% ICA Wastage is a word and we have that word because people are doing the wrong thing and it's people from both sides that are causing it fullstop Grading and times are the biggest cause of Wastage we have and you can mark my word on that not only that add to it Participants I honestly think there are people out there that shouldn't be allowed to breed nor hold a licence and that is a dillemma I know that and so does GRNSW Travel time for starters if you are going to have greyhounds Petrol will not be the costliest Item The dog that suits another track well will have to travel and no if the regional track is placed right Tamworth would be my Regional track for that area 1hr to Gunnedah 1 hr and Maybe a little bit to Armidale Muswellbrook 2 hours Cessnock 1hr Yes prizemoney would increase because they would be TAB meetings Let's not beat about the bush here hard decisions have to be made sorry I have to wear them also whatever they may be Mark you live in the Port Stephens area Cessnock is the Regional Centre for here and the Central Coast Gosford 1 and a bit hrs Maitland 45 minutes Newcastle around 1 hour Taree around 2hours Sydney a couple of hours Mark wouldn't you like to be able to nominate your dog for Tamworth knowing full well that the win could be possibly 500 or more and you can put a bet on I would be happy with that Oh by the way Coonamble and Broken Hill would serve those areas as Non Tab
Grant Thomas Australia (Verified User) Posts 11447 Dogs 64 / Races 20 06 Dec 2015 01:20
(0)
(0)
John McAlister wrote:
Mark let's look at yesterdays non TAB meetings there were 8 in total with an average of 8-1/2 races per meeting with 400 up for grabs in prizemoney so 8 x 8.5 x 400 = 27200 was raced for with no way of making anything from those meetings in profits from TAB turnover.if they do that for 52 weeks it becomes 52 x 27.2 = 1,414,400 now that's a lot of moola to be throwing down the drain the days of country racing in greyhounds is finished unless they regionalise and rationalise even culling 14 will not be enough
Wouldn't these meetings be picked up by the non closing tracks so no $$$ down the drain...???
John McAlister Australia (Verified User) Posts 6567 Dogs 1 / Races 0 06 Dec 2015 01:32
(0)
(0)
no monies are lost Tamworth would race more than once a week
Jamie Osborn Australia (Verified User) Posts 89 Dogs 1 / Races 0 06 Dec 2015 04:46
(0)
(0)
instead of trying to close all these country tracks why don't they give them some tab meetings Gunnedah have been doing everything they can to get them, then you have Muswellbrook always hard to get a start there because they have so many nominations
Mark Donohue Australia (Verified User) Posts 3236 Dogs 6 / Races 0 06 Dec 2015 05:09
(0)
(0)
John, Your model appears to only have centres of excellence with only an increase of prize money of about $120 per race and that figure has not been divided into 1st, 2nd n 3rd nor a decent or appropriate appearance fee. . Your model might not allow for extra TAB meetings at the same track because of coverage possibly being near saturation point. . Your model doesn't have Muswellbrook, Armidale, Gunnedah or others because there will be no spoke venues. They will be part of your 14 or more to go n never to return. . Your model doesn't include the infrastructure costs to build these major centres of excellence when GRNSW is poor. . Be careful what you wish for.
John McAlister Australia (Verified User) Posts 6567 Dogs 1 / Races 0 06 Dec 2015 06:08
(0)
(0)
Mark they will close tracks I don't think you realise that the game in NSW is Euchred we are top heavy in administration we are getting like bowling clubs yes our sport is aging and quickly at that. Can you tell me how will you find homes for the wastage How will you solve the grading issue how will you solve the avoiding track closures How are you going to get us more money for the ICA after it was a miserable failure the last time how are you going to fix this TAX parity issue of us getting 21% of the product and the Government giving us 10% held in trust How are you going to stop putting the healthy dogs down that aren't up to scratch To be honest I do know how to stop it all Close Greyhound in this Country down immediately problems all solved
John McAlister Australia (Verified User) Posts 6567 Dogs 1 / Races 0 06 Dec 2015 06:45
(0)
(0)
We only have to look at our kids of today they go for a job and anything up to 2 or 300 other kids go with them and our dogs and any dog for that matter have the same problems not enough homes for the greyhounds why because there is other breeds vying for the same home.I use to deliver stuff to a rescue rehoming place for the Husky dog they had 27 to find homes for people didn't want the big dogs. Mark how about this one a stud dog produces 50 to 55% winners from a litter of ten ah! yes even the good ones irrespective of excuses the other 45% are wastage and yes the Antis have their figures right there
Do you have questions about greyhound racing?
